radiator mounting subi conversion

I have seen alot of underbelly style radiator set ups and seem to be the favorite location but why?

there is a bay kicking around with the 3l subaru v6 motor and 2 honda radiators i think in one side of the engine compartment, now that's what I was thinking, why is this not commonly done? too hard?

when moving there will be enough air through the vent and when stationary good fans should cut the mustard surely??
i know gazman on kombi club has side mounted alloy one i think in a v6 kombi.

Feed back or pictures would be appreciated.

sorry if this has been brought up before i couldn't find it in my search.

Mike

if you put radiators in your engine bay at the back of you Kombi your just adding more heat, they could be a bitch to work on and get the radiator in there , its hard enough to change a kombi battery 🤪

I really don't know why more people don't locate radiators in the engine bay - it seemed the most logical place when I did my conversion - its out of the way, not prone to damage and no one has any idea that you have a conversion - until a Kombi passes them at 110kph on the motorway.
I run a 2L JDM Subaru EJ20 with 2 Porsche Boxster/911 radiators, connected in series either side of the engine - there's heaps of room with the right size radiator. There's more than enough airflow when moving coming through the upper vents and fans cut in occasionally when running in traffic for a minute or two.
The only reason for the Porsche radiator was they were the right size and the right price on ebay - I'm sure many small jap radiators would do the job too. Also the stock Subie fans fitted the porsche radiators perfectly.
I did however move all the exhaust system out of the engine bay to keep all that extra heat out.
The cooling system work brilliantly.
This is my first post and haven't quite figured out how to load pictures but pm me if you like.

mikew wrote:i think in one side of the engine compartment, now that's what I was thinking, why is this not commonly done?

karmann141 wrote:I really don't know why more people don't locate radiators in the engine bay

That's because 9 out of 10 of them don't work.
the 1 out of 10 will work adequately under most conditions but you'll find they will struggle when the going really gets tough unless you have huge rads and fans and heaps of cool air suppply.

You have to plan for the unforseen.
In the middle of summer if you come across one of those fatal accidents where the cops block most lanes off and you are sitting in bumper to bumper stop start stop start crawling traffic for 20 mins, 30 mins, an hour etc you will find out why the rads exhausting all that hot air into the engine bay is a bad idea.

You're not getting that road draft and fresh air into the engine bay of a kombi like a front engine car is and it's alot harder for it too escape.

Best spot for a kombi is up the front but alot of people don't like the look, which is fair enough so under the belly is the next best thing.

9 out of 10 dont work because you havent set it up properly. Seal around the radiator cores sothat all the air goes through the radiator and NOT around it.
I live in Qld and have had no cooling problems in all conditions - even when factory front mounted radiatored cars a shi..ing themselves in the heat. There's more than enough room to get all that heat out of the engine bay, just get the exhaust and muffler out of there.
I've done it and it works brilliantly

I know the kombi that Karmann141 built and has proved itself over a long period of time in the Queensland heat, the only reason the other do not work is a lack of detail in fitting the rediators in the engine bay, a much neater solution than mounting the radiator up front but it requires far more work making all the sheet metal required to seal every thing correctly, moving the exhaust foward obviously helps, as for sitting in bumper to bumper stop start stop start traffic for 20 mins, 30 mins, an hour there is no car on earth that has any air flow into the engine bar other than what is provided by the fans

Porsche radiators with standard Subaru thermo fans - no extra wiring - just plug in.

Radiators

Radiators with fans

Plenty of space for hot air to escape (without exhaust adding to heat load)

Radiators with engine

Exhaust out of engine bay

Mike,
Hope this helps you make an informed decision based on someone's experience that it actually works and not on speculation by someone who hasn't done it.

i am glad that it works for you , but If i was doing a kombi I would just use one radiator like any other car on the street and keep it simple . to much in that engine bay for me . but that's just me.

I'm sure 1 would work too - a Porsche Boxster/911 uses 3 - not saying a Kombi is a Porsche - lots of ways to skin a cat. Just saying that a radiator in a Kombi engine bay can be made to work as efficiently as any other location and does not have any ground clearance/damage issues or spoil the look of a Kombi.

Thanks for the replies guys, I think they look neat in the engine bay there and symmetrical!
I was considering 2 radiators, possibly mounting a fan next to the body where I might put some splitty vents as I have a hole there already from some silly plastic scoops.


What part of qld are you kArmann?

Hi karmann141

That's a really nice setup, where's your battery located now?

Do your fans need to run much highway speeds or do you get good airflow from the vents?

None of us a racing for sheep stations but the only thing I'm not sure about is how much more heat your setup would add to the heating of the inlet tract, probably no more than a stock Subaru car.

I've seen some nice belly mounted radiators on Kombis.

Steve

Just updated my profile - I'm in Carindale /Brisbane - often up the SShine coast at Perygian though.
Battery is now located Beetle style in box under RR bed/seat.
I have cut spare wheel well in half to create more uninterrupted air flow through the left radiator and also to create a sealed compartment for the computer and fan relays - only have old photo - when not yet completed.

I guess theres not much more heat in the engine bay than a standard Subaru or than most cars with the radiator in the engine bay. Water temp remains very stable and fans on come on for less than a minute at a time in traffic evry so often.
Another benefit of having the radiators in the engine bay is all the plumbing is kept short and simple. Comes up to temp quickly and remains constant - with standard thermostat in place - as Subaru designed.

Haven't worked out how to load multiple photos yet - looking to do a bit of reliable touring and camping.

1303Steve wrote:None of us a racing for sheep stations but the only thing I'm not sure about is how much more heat your setup would add to the heating of the inlet tract, probably no more than a stock Subaru car.

Thing to remember about that is pretty much every car made in the last 20 years has an air box with ducting feeding it which takes in fresh air from outside the engine bay.

99% of engine conversions just stick a pod filter on the AFM and call it a day.

The engine is drawing in all that heat in the engine bay from the radiators.

I thought the issue was whether radiators in the egine bay work or not -which they do.
If hot induction air is an issue that easily cure by creating a cold air induction intake - but it does'nt appear to be much of an issue.
Have a look at a Fast Fours mag and tell me how many pod filters you can find in the engine bay.

To add more than one pic at a time click on the side where it says ( - Add Attachment - )


When it comes to Pod filters It's monkey see monkey do.
Every young boy racer slaps a supercheap auto pod on his Commonwhore and instantly thinks he's Craig Lowndes.

Look closely at the Pods in your fast fours mags that aren't on trailer queens and you'll notice they are enclosed in cold air intakes like so



Trouble is with high intake temps you don't know it's a problem till the damage is done.

Here's some pix of the EZ30 Kombi :





The owner used 2 x Honda Civic racing radiators with some mods. Fitted the stock Subie fans with shrouds on them, The fans only come on when stopped in traffic.

We were discussing if there could be any improvements made to make sure the hot air is drawn out the back of the engine bay, without cutting holes in it our louvering it etc.

Someone has previously made a large rubber 'spoiler/strip' that bolts under the car at the front of the engine bay. This helps create a low pressure area in the engine bay and gets the hot air from the radiators sucked out the back.

Anywaym the owner of the EZ30 Kombi is very happy with the twin radiator solution. I think Karmann141's setup is neat and effective.

Joel wrote:

1303Steve wrote:None of us a racing for sheep stations but the only thing I'm not sure about is how much more heat your setup would add to the heating of the inlet tract, probably no more than a stock Subaru car.

Thing to remember about that is pretty much every car made in the last 20 years has an air box with ducting feeding it which takes in fresh air from outside the engine bay.

99% of engine conversions just stick a pod filter on the AFM and call it a day.

The engine is drawing in all that heat in the engine bay from the radiators.

Hi Joel

On rereading my post I wasn't very clear with my thoughts, what I was getting at was the inlet tract including the inlet manifold.

On conversions with radiators mounted outside the engine bay and without the radiators forcing heated air over the whole motor, the motor would have cooler air around it resulting in cooler intake temps.

The way that the karmann141 conversion is set-up the motor is maybe getting roughly the same amount of heated air blowing over it as a if it was in a Subaru car apart from the air inlet. A separate cool air intake would be a good idea on the karmann141 conversion.

Its one of the NSW RMS rules that air cleaners are enclosed, so open pods are defectable.

I have one of these K&N systems on my car and it is NSW RMS legal

Steve

I know the air box from my Liberty took a cold air feed from behind the drivers headlight so it wasn't getting hot air from the engine bay.

Enclosed pods seems to be a grey area when it comes to cars as old as ours.
I think it's more an issue in modern cars that have factory enclosed air boxes.
When my bug was engineered he was perfectly happy with my Pod filter completely open, just as long as it was adequately supported.
I'm currently working on an enclosed cold air intake similar to Jaks with mine.

Todd, am I right in thinking that EZ30 has fit the type4 engine bay with no cutting?

I think the front firewall needed to be modified.

hey karmann

i am also in carindale i have a76 bay with subie ej 25 in it

I woudl like to catch up with you and see your conversion
paul

Joel wrote:Todd, am I right in thinking that EZ30 has fit the type4 engine bay with no cutting?

No cutting. Looks like a bit of 'peening' with a hammer on the firewall is about all.

Gotta be happy with that.
Why don't more Kombi owners realize how well they fit.

Certainly fits much better than the porch 911 engine in my uncles brothers cousins twice removed sisters mechanics kombi back in the day that lifted the front wheels 6 feet and ate Monaros for breakfast

true story 🙄

Thanks for the advice Steve - like the look of your K&N filter. Always happy to make improvements and take advice from someone who has tried it.

Glad to see some responses,

Really would love to see your Kombi in real life next time your on the coast karmann. Drop me a message if your keen. 0415682256
Love the half beetle too! I painted one for my mate a few years back to match his van!

Was going to plumb the filter out of the warm air if I could, get my van out of a field on Monday so can start measuring for that part of the project!

Mike

Karmann141, how often do your fans kick in?
Sweet setup and if it truely works, it's summat to strive for

Hi ElusiveStranger
The dual radiator setup does work here in Queensland which is a darn site hotter than Kent - spent 2yrs in the UK and have a good friend who lives near Margate.
I'm not the first with this setup. I know someone in Rockhampton (hotter than Brisbane again) who has twin Mk1 Gollf radiators set up in a Bay dual cab engine bay (EJ22) and tows a car trailer in summer with no problems - he has however fitted Bay Kombi side vents down low.
The radiators only run when I am in traffic but only intermittently for literally only a minute at a time. You'll definitely have no problems in the UK.
I will however look at a cold air intake for my pod filter. The critical elements are making sure all the air coming through the side intake vents goes through the radiator and cannot go around it and getting any other heat sources like exhaust out of the engine bay.

karmann141 wrote:The critical elements are making sure all the air coming through the side intake vents goes through the radiator and cannot go around it and getting any other heat sources like exhaust out of the engine bay.

This is spot on. I think this is why your setup works. There also must be some way that the air is being drawn down out of the engine bay that you're not aware of. The most effective setups work not because air is being forced into them, but because the aerodynamics of the car are literally pulling the air through it. All new cars are designed in this way.

Seeing as there is quite a bit of interest and theories about radiator location and I personally feel this is the best spot, I will conduct some tests during the Easter break as I like hard scientific evidence as to how and why things work.
Hence I get a bit cheesed off when someone makes a blanket statement that 9 out of 10 don't work and they haven't tried it themselves in that particular type of vehicle - Beetles and Kombis are quite different for obvious reasons.
I'll measure engine compartment temperatures and pressures mmH2O & note exactly when fans come on for the following:
1. For current setup
2. Crack open rear engine cover
3. Duct air into the engine bay from under the vehicle
and open to any other suggestions
Always happy to try and improve the system.
Might post data here or start a new thread.

Anyone would swear I'd run over your first born.
As you and many others have said in this thread the reason yours works is you have spent the time sealing the rads in so they get maximum air flow drawn through the core not around it.
How the heat is drawn out of the engine bay especially at low speeds would be good to know, so will be interesting to see any tests you can do before things starts to cool down.


Alot of watercooled converted Kombis are done on the cheap with very little consideration put into rad mounting especially in the back which is why some of them don't work, note I didn't say none of them work.
I may be a bug owner but I did have exposure to a few EA81/EA82/Astron/Datsun converted Kombis a while back with rear mounted rads, not usually in the side like yours but across the back.
I live in Nimbin/Byron Feral central headquarters, they were all driving poorly maintaned Kombis kept running on the cheap here once not long ago.

karmann141 wrote:...I get a bit cheesed off when someone makes a blanket statement that 9 out of 10 don't work and they haven't tried it themselves in that particular type of vehicle...

I can totally understand that. Thing is most of the people on here advocating front/belly systems for kombis have seen all the setups... which is a kind word for some of the abortions people have called "setups". Hack backyarders come on this forum and say, "will this work?" and "I'm having dramas". Experienced people here say, "only if you do X & Y" and then the person gets all toey like we're trying to pick a fight or something.

I trust that your system works. I can see WHY it works. Thing is, and this is a compliment, you're an exception. Most, well, don't work at all. So by and large people like myself advocate a front or belly mounted radiator. It's easier for the inexperienced & stupid... I include myself in those two categories BTW. 😊

Well there's what I was trying to say in much more tactfull terms.
Uncle Pete to the rescue again 😂

gotta love that ez30 prices are coming down! would make for a nice bus. Hmmm,

Hi karmann141

If your going to do some testing try and film some wool tufts at speed with a go pro or similar around where the hot air is expelled from the engine bay.

If your fans are not coming on at speed your system must be working very well.

Relying on the electric fans coming on at speed is sign that a system needs more thought.

Steve

Thanks Steve - you're quite right, if the fans come on at speed then the system needs refining.
I'm going to hook up a dash LED that lights up when the fans come on and measure real time engine bay temps while driving under different conditions.
Will also then direct some cool air from airflow under body at the pod filter. Will try and create an airbox (but space is tight) - if not try your K&N filter.

My twin radiator system in the engine bay has now been fine tuned with a set of clear Just Kampers Earz (air intake scoops) and number plate stand-off. Radiator fans now do not come on when driving at any speed and only when stopped in heavy traffic.

Best way of doing the lights... just hook a 12v LED to the 12V output from the rad relay, take the other leg to ground.
Mine are in the rear cupboard and easily visable via the rear view mirror. I have a green one on the a/c relay (fan is NC) and a red on the main fan.

Job's a good un.

Remember with LEDs, "Long leg, Red" 👍

Thanks - I have a green LED on the dash that lights up when the fans run. Was a bit worried after after adding the Earz and number plate standoff that the LED was'nt working as it did not come on once during a 300km trip. Had to stop and leave it idling for quite a while before fans kicked in at abut 95 degrees (Jap spec engine).
System is now very efficient.

Hi

Well done, looks like you have nailed it where others have failed. Your method should be the way to go for other converters.

Steve

Karmann141

Where is your battery whit this twin rad setup

Tor

My Subaru conversion is in a 74 Baywindow Camper - so the battery is now located in a battery box under the back seat like a Beetle.

Just a bit of an update for anyone contemplating radiator/s in the engine bay.
Just noticed water temp was sitting on about 5 degrees higher when driving to Warwick and could'nt work out why - thought that it may just have been due to the higher ambient temperature.
Then realised we had the rear quarter window open which deflected the air away from one air intake and radiator. Once closed - temp settled back down. Fans still did not come on at highway speeds.
Guess I'll fit a slider on the drivers side as well.

ian.mezz wrote:i am glad that it works for you , but If i was doing a kombi I would just use one radiator like any other car on the street and keep it simple . to much in that engine bay for me . but that's just me.

one radiator? why?

Porsche use 2 so why not here?

I like the idea of 2 over one for neater and easier to manage install.

I can't see using one big radiator an easy thing to fit anywhere neatly.


^ this suby install example is perfect to show what some proper planning and research and little knowledge can do. Not just make assumption about how something aught to work.

There appears to be a lot of arm chair mechanic's on the site, the above conversion has worked because it is not a lash up and has been engineered to work with a lot of thought applied to the outcome.

vwo60 wrote:There appears to be a lot of arm chair mechanic's on the site, the above conversion has worked because it is not a lash up and has been engineered to work with a lot of thought applied to the outcome.

Arm chair mechanics are common on every VW site. Its what makes a VW owner....a VW owner. 😂

Seriously, one of the sad parts of many builds is that they say 'generally' what they did, but don't say or show specifically HOW they did it. For instance on the orange Bus with the Porsche rads....which Porsche Rads? got a part # we can look up? Why did you choose those over the VW Mk1 scirocco style Rads? How did you build your mounts for those rads to mechanically support them. What did you use as a gasket to seal around the rad so that all air is directed to the Rad?

All of this kind of data might make it easier for the cheap dreamers to get a better solution with less skull sweat.

Marshall
The VolksarU Project

Hi

Many builds rely on parts turning up at the right price and then making them fit.

Porsche radiators for example, walk into a Porsche wrecker or dealer and be prepared to blow your budget on just the radiators.

I used a Audi 100/200 radiator in my car because I already owned a Audi 100/200 fan & shroud.

Steve

this is how Porsche do it. quite complex actually but it does the job right from cooling aspect.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/Porsche-996-997-Carrera/30-WATER-Coolant_Hose_Replacement/30-WATER-Coolant_Hose_Replacement.htm

Hi,

This was not my build thread - but a response to a question on radiator location. This is merely how I installed my radiators, hence no intricate detail.
I'm only to happy to share the finer details if asked.

As Steve said my choice of radiator/s was merely opportunistic - I measured the size of radiator I needed and the Boxster/911 radiators are the perfect size. A full set of 3 came up on eBay at the right price (I only used 2). If one's from a Hyundai fitted I would have used them.

The radiators fit perfectly in the channel which runs along the top of either side of the engine bay. I glued about 10mm thick high density foam rubber to the top and bottom of the radiators and they are self supported in the channel - the radiator hoses keep them in the right location. The original Subaru fans and shrouds fit the radiators almost perfectly (stroke of luck).

Done quite a few thousand km's in it now and the system works very well and with the green LED on the dash that comes on when the fans run, I can keep and accurate track of things.

In winter temp gauge sits on 80 degrees (actually had to remove the Earz) and Summer 85 - 90 degrees. In stop start traffic or after a long climb fans kick in at 95 degrees and run for a max 30sec .

Happy to supply more detailed info if you need it - just ask.

If you want details, send the man an email. We have the technology 😂,

often you don't have the time to add every detail of your days/weeks/months/years work because you are too busy working on our cars than documenting them.

Nice work karmann! might send you a PM myself when I undertake the same mod next year

webwalker wrote:

vwo60 wrote:There appears to be a lot of arm chair mechanic's on the site, the above conversion has worked because it is not a lash up and has been engineered to work with a lot of thought applied to the outcome.

Arm chair mechanics are common on every VW site. Its what makes a VW owner....a VW owner. 😂

Seriously, one of the sad parts of many builds is that they say 'generally' what they did, but don't say or show specifically HOW they did it. For instance on the orange Bus with the Porsche rads....which Porsche Rads? got a part # we can look up? Why did you choose those over the VW Mk1 scirocco style Rads? How did you build your mounts for those rads to mechanically support them. What did you use as a gasket to seal around the rad so that all air is directed to the Rad?

All of this kind of data might make it easier for the cheap dreamers to get a better solution with less skull sweat.

Marshall
The VolksarU Project

Hi Guys,

I did a heap of research when putting the radiators in both the beetles and the Kombi and the one thing that is crucial to any cooling set up is pressure. it does not matter how much air you have hitting a radiator if there is not a low pressure created behind it to draw the air through.

Best example is the black plastic tray that sits between the front spoiler and the front end on new cars. its job is to push air past the engine bay thus causing a vacuum and air is subsequently drawn through radiators, a/c components etc. One study took the tray off a wrx and air rushed immediately into the engine bay and caused that much immediate pressure that air was going backwards through the bonnet scoop.

Food for thought.. my bloody radiator on the bug is too big and works too well!

Matt

yeah, that is how its been done for a long time in front mount rads in cars. you don't even need any significant intake and doesn't even need to be directly in the air steam hitting the car.
The EF/EL faclons are the best example I can think off. The only have a small slot in the bottom of the bumper while the rad is mounted high, indirectly to the intake slot, no grille either

radiators work best in a draw through setup. That is why the fans are also mounted behind the rad.

The same principal makes me wonder if it would posibly work in a rear mounted rad in a notchback with the rad air boxed to the existing fan intake and working in reverse with the outlet being the vent behind the rear window?

In theory yes, in practice this would be hard to test. There is low pressure area behind the rear window where the vent is, I don't know if the engine bay is low or high pressure relative to the vent though? I would assume its higher.

I will do a type 3 in the future as a notch was my first car.

It will just be nicely placed in that massive space in the front, so much easier than bug or bus.🙂

Matt

what we need to remember is that of you own an old VW you are weird...if you stick another engine in one you are really weird...which is me...i love inventing stuff that makes my kombi work just for me...

this setup i dont reccomend to anyone but it has worked superbly for five years with the heat of a turbo climbing bush tracks in first in a queensland summer..

invent..enjoy..be happy...

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=79781

boof2332 wrote:I will do a type 3 in the future as a notch was my first car.

It will just be nicely placed in that massive space in the front, so much easier than bug or bus.🙂

Matt

what space? only if you sacrifice the spare tyre and cut holes.

otherwise its quite hard and space is limited.

I got some ideas for custom front spoiler with integrated intake and twin radiators and air boxes. in front of the beam either side of the spare wheel tub.

its will cost a lot to develop though just to prove the concept though. I am no where near that stage yet.

In a bug its easier because no ones cares if you cut holes in them 😂

well at least i don't🤓

rocknrob wrote:what we need to remember is that of you own an old VW you are weird...if you stick another engine in one you are really weird...which is me...i love inventing stuff that makes my kombi work just for me...

this setup i dont reccomend to anyone but it has worked superbly for five years with the heat of a turbo climbing bush tracks in first in a queensland summer..

invent..enjoy..be happy...

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=79781

no weirdness its just other people suck. they are good at being sheep though

Bug is harder as the space is only small where the wheel sits. Type 3 has much more room.
Just Remember the holes for the radiator and how you create the low pressure mean you will cut more out the back than the front.
I could make it almost look invisible if you still run bumpers.

Matt

Hey Karman141,your project has just inspired me to new levels.This is the kind of positive work that gets new members to try new projects.I am a newbie and i am no mechanical guru,could you explain in details how you setup the dual radiators.I have read comments such as "in series",what does this mean?One intake of one radiator connects to the exit port of the other?please explain this..a few detailed pictures posted along as an explanation would be great.I would like to do the exact setup on my 1970 Kombi.I bought it with a toyota 2y engine(anyone have an idea on how good this engine is?) and the previous owner setup the radiator on the outside of the decklid at the back.(ugly)I want to switch to a setup like yours that is more discrete and any advise would be helpful.Thank you in advance.

Connected in series just means the coolant comes out of the engine, into the first radiator then across and through the second before going back into the waterpump.

The only other way to connect would be parallel flow which means splitting the coolant to each rad as it comes out of the engine then feeding in back into the water pump togehter out of each rad.
A method that no one would use as it makes no sense.

Hi Monkslayer,

As Joel states above re radiators connected in series - simplest and only way to go.

Bit busy with work at the present to do a long post but feel free to pm me - only happy to help.

Have a look at Sunnyjim's post

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=98668&page=6

he's doing the same radiator setup in a lowlight as has Bucknasty (in USA) who has a very professional setup - he has a link to his build.

I guess a comment I'd like to make is this is not to get to hung up if the radiator fans come on during often driving. I guess we forget before electric fans, all cars had a belt driven fan that ran constantly when the engine was running - regardless of conditions.
Doing work for a Bus company recently I looked at the buses rear engine/rear radiator setup - very little natural flow through radiator when bus is moving - the fan runs constantly. According to the mechanic - the fan stops - the bus stops.

The setup in my camper works really well and took a little while to fine tune (JK Earz and number plate standoff etc) - having a good temp gauge and dash LED letting you know when the fans run is important.

ok guys, time for going outside the square. How about a Porsche 911 centre radiator.?

Its only 170mm high, low enough to mount under the belly of the kombi and still have ground clearance. Its only 608mm wide and a thick 44mm meaning its actual coolant capacity is deceptive. The outlets (41mm) are both at the top meaning hoses wont be at risk.

Just thinking out loud. Of course Joel, I came up with this radiator as an alternative to the Alfa 33 I use, to put the Porsche one above the engine in my trike.

When I think, it usually leads to being expensive...

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/RADIATOR-PORSCHE-911-996-911-996-97-05-CENTRE-RADIATOR-/120746732399

wow! wtf at the price!

should that be only 100 bucks?

the price??? oh yeh, forgot about that. A second hand one could be found at the wrckers I suppose.

You'd think with all the kombi's being converted a radiator builder would produce a 1200mm wide x 150mm high x 50mm thick radiator complete with four small thermo fans.

anyway sorry if I've hijacked the theme here

I actually have the centre radiator as well and plan to use it on my Ghia project. Bought all 3 Porsche radiators for $300 on ebay. I doubt it can keep a Subie motor cool on its own - it's pretty small.

Karmann 141. according to measurements on the net and my link, the centre Porshe radiator is 610mmx170mmx44mm and 1 row.

This has got me interested. Because 44mm thickness is a lot more thicker tubes than many radiators.

My ea81 ran two versions of the Alfa33 radiator (Joel knows too well). The early one isnt available anymore in Oz (but can be sought from NZ and other places) and the later one has 80mm more height.

Alfa 33 large= 524mmx325mmx34mm I assume its 1 row. Roughly multiplying it all = 5790200

The Porsche centre radiator 610x170x44 = 4562800

Smaller Alfa 33 radiator 545x234x32 = 418560

So the Porsche one is larger in capacity than the smallest Alfa 33 radiator that cooled my EA81 quite well.

Under $300 landed here in oz http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Porsche-911-Boxster-Center-Radiator-99-04-listed-FREE-SHIPPING/310421949205?_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.RVI%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131017132637%26meid%3D5922500420640431797%26pid%3D100033%26prg%3D20131017132637%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D310421949205

my radiator is about that big, just sits behind the front apron.
you just have to copy the way that Subaru have there hoses all connected, a lot of people get them mixed up or think that they know a better way then Subaru, to make the water flow around 😂the cooling system

I have my own interest in this Porsche "centre" radiator and need your thoughts guys. To return my radiator to the rear of my trike is to palce it above the torque converter on a slight angle hindering the engine bay and opens it up for easy damage.

The Posrche one is so short in height that it could be mounted on the angine protection bar and not look too ugly.

It might also be suitable for the kombi being only 170mm high as an alternative for the flat radiator idea if owners thought it a better solution.

My very rough calculations have been done above. I'm wondering if these calculations would mean that the centre radiator would cool the Subaru engine sufficiently?? I assume it will but am seeking reasons why it wouldnt.

In addition 4 x 6" thermo fans would fit in the 610mm width. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/6-INCH-LOW-PROFILE-HIGH-PERFORMANCE-THERMO-FAN-/121106430298?_trksid=p2054897.l4275

Tweety - if the small Alfa radiator worked then the centre Porsche radiator would definitely work - it certainly is a high quality item. I'll be using mine as a water-to-air intercooler radiator on the Ghia.

It could possibly work on a Kombi but in my opinion and experience, I don't think a belly mounted radiator is the best place for a rad on a kombi - to prone to damage.

edited- sorry mate had this reply open for some time. as you can see bleow the posrsche rad is much smaller but still big enough.

Found a radiator size formula.

http://www.super7thheaven.co.uk/blog/what-size-car-radiator-for-my-car-a120.html

Gotta convert mm cubed to inches cubed and cc also but came up with this

Porsche centre radiator is 4562800 mm sq based on core dimensions. 610x170x44mm. Subaru 1781 EA81 engine is 108 sq ".

Formula stipulates the following-

Start with 2 cubic inches of core for every cubic inch of engine. Increase or decrease that value by the following factors:

ADD

0.1 for a vertical flow radiator core
0.1 for an in-line engine
0.1 for a small trailer towing
0.1 for a 2 row radiator
0.1 for double evaporators
0.2 for outside temperatures of 105°F (40.5°C)
0.2 for a medium trailer towing
0.2 for a small engine fitted to a heavy car
0.2 for a radiator fan with diameter less than 90% of smallest dimension
0.3 for air conditioning
0.3 for no fan shroud
0.3 for an antique car with small engine compartment
0.4 for large trailer towing
0.6 for a diesel engine

SUBTRACT

0.1 for remote transmission cooler (not within radiator)
0.1 for standard in-line transmission
0.1 for a single row radiator
0.1 for a V6 / V8 engine
0.2 for a spacious pickup truck engine compartment
0.2 for outside temperatures less than 90°F (32.2°C)
0.2 for a full fan shroud
02 for a horizontal flow radiator core
0.3 for a large engine in a small car

In my trikes case-

Add- - 0.1 for small trailer towing, 0.2 for outside temp over 40 deg, 0.3 for no fan shroud, = 3.19
Subtract - 0.1 for single row radiator, 0.2 outside temp less than 32 degrees, 0.2 for horizontal flow radiator, = 0.5 = 2.69

2.0+0.6-0.5= 2.1

2.1x108= 226.8 area of radiator is 278 sq". Conclusion- radiator is 19% larger than required.

As a safeguard I can also add a small motorcycle radiator off the heater hoses if required.

Now for a Kombi. Lets say its for a 2 litre EJ engine. 2.0 litres = 122 sq"

We know the cubic inches of the Porsche radiator is 278sq ".

Lets say the outside temp stuff cancels itself out. Add - 0.2 for small engine in large car, 0.3 for no fan shroud, 0.4 for large trailer towing (this for it being a transporter load carrying vehicle etc) = 0.9 total added. Subtract- 0.1 for single row radiator, 0.2 for horizontal flow radiator... = 0.3

2.0 + 0.6 = 2.6.

2.6x 122 = 317. With the radiator being 278 sq" it is too small by 13%

What about a kombi with an eA81?

the 2.6 factor remains the same.

2.6x108 = 280. Radiator is 278. likely is ok for this engine.

So finally did the rear radiator setup with the Toyota 4y engine.weird thing keeps happening, after every drive I find the water level has drastically reduced.in fact today after a 100km drive I found all the water/coolant had gone.the radiator was empty!

According to my temperature gauge the engine runs at approximately 100 degrees Celsius with Max of 110 degrees Celsius.

Karman141..any idea why this keeps happening?I have sealed all areas where it showed signs of leakage but the problem persists.

G'day monkeyslayer.

1 are you using expansion bottle ?
2 what temp gauge & sender are they matched ?
3 are you running right cap for radiator.
4 have let it idle up to running temp sitting & check for water dripping. If you blowing a full radiator out theres a definite problem in the system may need a pressure test.

On my 67 split running worked 180b motor I ran a radiator on the left side with a camira fan never had a problem with the set up. I had a scoop on front running into original heater tube down to the rear & copex tubing running around to the inlet side of radiator & right side tube blowing into engine bay to flow air.
ernie

Getting that hot and disappearing coolant I'd be suspect of your headgasket.
Would be worth getting a pressure test done.

I am using an expansion bottle.a rather large one for that matter:-(.the radiator cap is the right one.as far as leakages go I sealed all the visible ones.i am not sure if the temperature sensor and gauge are matched
I found the gauge in the car when I bought It and just replaced the sender with a Toyota one.

I do doubt its accuracy, I suspect it's about 10 degrees ahead(error).

The gasket seems OK.I don't see water and oil mixing in the engine.

I suspect a massive leak in the radiator or just an inefficient radiator overall.I found it in the car and just cleaned it out and sealed a few leakages here and there.

Joel wrote:Getting that hot and disappearing coolant I'd be suspect of your headgasket.
Would be worth getting a pressure test done.

yep, sounds like it. I had a ford escort that did that. cracked head I believe the next owner found. blown gasket into the combustion chamber will do that too.

monkslayer wrote:I suspect a massive leak in the radiator or just an inefficient radiator overall.I found it in the car and just cleaned it out and sealed a few leakages here and there.

If you had a radiator or cooling system leaking that bad you would know it.
Leaking hot coolant has a very distinctive smell and everywhere it leaks as it dries it leaves a white powdery kit of residue.

It's possible as Vlad says for a headgasket to just leak into one of the combustion chambers.
None gets in the oil that way and the coolant is just burned off as steam out the exhaust.
It does a good job of steam cleaning which ever cylinder its happening too.

To check your sender/gauge calibration pull the sender out of the car and run a ground from the sender to the car and put it in a boiling water see if it reads 100c.


If you are running a stock Toyota sender with an aftermarket gauge chances are the calibration will be off.

http://www.goss.com.au/products/13A

is cheap and it works 😊

steam cleaning the inside lol.

you mean totally stuffing the bores and eroding the valves into Swiss cheese?

thats what happen to my niece's ford with a slight leak in to 3 of the cylinders. its was nasty! consumption was like 1L every few weeks of coolant.

Thanks guys.I will replace the head gasket and see what happebs .will update!

Just discovered that one of my water pipes had cut and that was the culprit.I have replaced it and will observe it and hope this will solve the problem.

good stuff

Here we go - just found this on YouTube - twin radiator setup.