I was flying through getting the old 1600tp up and running with dual kadrons, VintageSpeed exhaust and brand new tinware.
I got ready to boot her up and bang, the LHS carb caught on fire. I grabbed the closest thing (which I regret so badly right now) which was a tray of kitty litter to douse the fire. Rookie mistake, right?
As the air filters weren't on the carbs yet, the kitty litter went down the carb and into the manifold, therefore into the engine block itself. The engine now seizes (won't go any further either way I turn the engine) on the third cylinder. Too much kitty litter I guess.
What is the process to fix this?
Craig Torrens ·
Pull the spark plug out and take the carby off and put a hose on a vacuum and try and suck the crap out.
p.s. your insurance was for fire and theft...........this is a fire 😎 !!!
68AutoBug ·
SebastienPeek wrote:Alrighty, a little update.
I was flying through getting the old 1600tp up and running with dual kadrons, VintageSpeed exhaust and brand new tinware.
I got ready to boot her up and bang, the LHS carb caught on fire. I grabbed the closest thing (which I regret so badly right now) which was a tray of kitty litter to douse the fire. Rookie mistake, right?
As the air filters weren't on the carbs yet, the kitty litter went down the carb and into the manifold, therefore into the engine block itself. The engine now seizes (won't go any further either way I turn the engine) on the third cylinder. Too much kitty litter I guess.
What is the process to fix this?
the only real way is to take the head off and clean out the cylinders..
You could try the thru the spark plug hole but I doubt You will get it all out..
Many years ago My Son had the same problem.. luckily I had a fire extinguisher handy..
No Cats here...lol
LEE
matberry ·
Ouch...really need to take off the head on that side to get the kitty litter out.....doh!
If the vac doesn't work
waltermitty ·
If there is any cat shit in there,
Perhaps you need a caty litter convertor?
M🙅
Craig Torrens ·
waltermitty wrote:If there is any cat shit in there,
Perhaps you need a caty litter convertor?
M🙅
😂❗😂🙅
SebastienPeek ·
Craig Torrens wrote:Pull the spark plug out and take the carby off and put a hose on a vacuum and try and suck the crap out.
p.s. your insurance was for fire and theft...........this is a fire 😎 !!!
Spark plug is out, and tried getting the vacuum cleaner down there, but didn't think of attaching a hose. Now to find a hose wide enough to fit on the vacuum cleaner.
matberry wrote:Ouch...really need to take off the hed on that side to get the kitty litter out.....doh!
Yeah, I figured the head would have to come off, was hoping it wasn't going to be the case...
Will try the vacuum hose trick and if that doesn't work, then will drop the engine and try that. Guess she won't be running for a while still.
waltermitty wrote:If there is any cat shit in there,
Perhaps you need a caty litter convertor?
M🙅
Aha nah, there was no cat shit in there, thankfully.
SebastienPeek ·
Oh and Craig, there is no proof of fire which sucks, but lucky for me which is great!
I just need to figure out whether or not I strip the engine down completely and remove the head that has the shit in it.
My question is, what if it has gone down into the block itself? That's a split the case job which is something I'm not willing to do.
Probably be better off getting a new engine if that's the case, right?
SebastienPeek ·
What do people recommend to make it easy to get the engine in and out?
I need to make this as painless as possible and do it as thoroughly and professionally as possible.
I also need peoples help as soon as possible because I'm running out of options and it is either get her up and running with this engine or just send her to scrap and sell the ancillaries. 🙁
ragged ·
Seb,
Give me a call tomorrow and I will come over and help you sort this out. Don't go pulling your engine out just yet!
You could say 'there is more than one way to skin a cat', but enough with the puns.
Cheers Dave
SebastienPeek ·
Dave,
Will give you a call tomorrow!
Hopefully this means we can get her back under her own power.
68AutoBug ·
That is great news Seb..
You can take the fan housing off and tinware with the engine still in the car
I just did it a few weeks ago...
You do need to take the engine lid and hinges off though...
I did see a fellow in the USA take both heads off with the engine in the car... I think He had to cut or drill a few holes.??
If You get a hose that will fit inside the spark plug hole , You tape this hose into the vacuum cleaner hose...
like wide duct tape or gaffer tape or even masking tape,,
I don't suppose kitty liitter would do any harm...??
not sure what its made from... maybe squirt some oil into the spark plug hole once You've got it out with the vacuum..
not a lot of room inside the cylinder...
so no wonder it stopped... lol
a flooding carby will stop an engine from turning over too..
I've had that one.... lol so it doesn't take much to stop them
I don't think the kitty litter would have gotten into the sump etc...
just the cylinder...
cheers
LEE
waltermitty ·
SebastienPeek wrote:Hopefully this means we can get her back under her own power.
Im sure youll have her purring like a kitten in no time!
M
(Sorry I cant help it. I do hope you get a happy ending though. M)
SebastienPeek ·
Ahaha it is all good, hope I can get her purring like a kitten too!
What an idiot though, still beating myself up over using kitty litter.
Should have just smothered it with towels or something.
At least I'll be buying a fire extinguisher tonight.
Geeze!
bajachris88 ·
be careful. some of the stuff in fire extinguishers can be nasty too! (for cars)
sometimes a big blow on the top of the carb puts it out, otherwise starve it of air by putting a plate over the carb etc etc.
Only the finest of particulates from the kitty litter could pass through the piston rings into the block so don't stress. If you can vacuum the most of it out, then as soon as it fires up it will launch the remainder out the exhaust 👍
vlad01 ·
this could have and probably has done serious damage. check the crank and rods aren't bent plus other components.
Joel ·
68AutoBug wrote:I did see a fellow in the USA take both heads off with the engine in the car... I think He had to cut or drill a few holes.??
I really wonder at times where some peoples heads are at.
It would take 30 mins tops for the average Joe to drop a bug engine out.
The rooting around it would take to remove all the tinware, the headstuds would need unscrewing from the block so the heads can be removed in the car is several hours work and lots of skinned knuckles due to tight confines 🤪
Used to take me 20 mins to get my 1776 out before my removable valance and that included removing both the carbs, the header and the remote oil filter.
A stock engine just falls out on its own with a few bolts.
Seb no need to go splitting the case and doing full tear downs, none of it would have made it into the bottom end.
You won't have bent anything turning it by hand, but it would be wise to drop the heads off even if you think you've got all the crap out of it.
helbus ·
It would be the same sort of job as a top end reseal.
Engine out
Heads off
New gaskets and pushrod tube seals
Reassemble
shokwave2 ·
Any idea how the carb caught fire? Was there a wire touching the carb or soemthing to spark it?
Smiley ·
68AutoBug wrote:a flooding carby will stop an engine from turning over too..
I've had that one.... lol so it doesn't take much to stop them
I have no idea how this works?
vlad01 wrote:this could have and probably has done serious damage. check the crank and rods aren't bent plus other components.
Turning it over by hand won't have caused any damage. Unless you tried putting some serious pressure and ramming it back and forward.
It's certainly won't have bent the crank or rods.
Smiley 🙂
jamiesc ·
you just cant catch a break Sebastian hope you get it all sorted out mate and back on the road soon
bugmaniaar ·
Goes past really fast
MEEEOOWWWWWW
helbus ·
Smiley wrote:
68AutoBug wrote:a flooding carby will stop an engine from turning over too..
I've had that one.... lol so it doesn't take much to stop them
I have no idea how this works?
I parked our beetle on a really really steep driveway nose upwards one night, and when we went to leave the carby float needle and seat had allowed the petrol tank to let fuel to fill the combustion chambers that were open. So the motor would not start, as it was hydro locked, and the oil sump had massive litres of fuel. I drained the oil/ fuel mix which was over 5 litres, refilled the oil being 2.5 litresl, and it started. So fuel will get past the rings very quietly while you are drinking.
68AutoBug ·
shokwave2 wrote:Any idea how the carb caught fire? Was there a wire touching the carb or soemthing to spark it?
I think too much fuel and a back fire...
easily done with a beetle engine...
only needs a bit of an inlet manifold leak..
wet towel fixes it fast [if You happen to have one closeby]
Yes Pete,
My needle and seat leaked one day because I was working on the wiring and had left the electric fuel pump left on..
I think thats when I made the decision to get a fuel pressure regulator.. lol
doesn't take long to fill up a cylinder and then continue to seep into the sump...
Diluted Oil isn't good... New oil is a MUST..
kitty litter cannot get past the rings..
Joel,
Fellow in the USA.. ???
with a semi auto beetle there are pipes and hoses with ATF and I don't like to reuse any liquids in a car...
so, it gets costly, 5 litres of ATF each time.. if done many times in a week or two.. lol plus replaceing the torque converter oil seal .. if its been disturbed.. or gone hard..
also messy...
Seb
check to see that the sump oil doesn;t smaell like petrol.. .Maybe petrol has seeped into the sump after filling up the piston gap up with petrol...
as Joel suggests head off and o good check for any damage which I don't think will be there...
clean out the cylinder and away You will go...
then get the wet towels ready, and try to stsrt the engine again.....
best of luck
LEE
helbus ·
Beetles are very prone to smelling like petrol, oil and exhaust fumes. My kids do smell after being in the beetle for a few minutes
68AutoBug ·
helbus wrote:Beetles are very prone to smelling like petrol, oil and exhaust fumes. My kids do smell after being in the beetle for a few minutes
that drives Me crazy Pete..
I hope I don't smell like petrol??
but I have noticed I can smell petrol when I park My car..
am trying to stop the smell...
new fuel hoses and clamps... seems to be better..
just got to do under the tank..
and I need to check inside the tunnel for a fuel leak...
cheers
LEE
Joel ·
helbus wrote:Beetles are very prone to smelling like petrol, oil and exhaust fumes. My kids do smell after being in the beetle for a few minutes
They don't have to be though.
People just accept that as being normal in an old car.
Fuel smells are usually just wrongly routed breather hoses or 40 years worth of rubber perishing.
Mine when I first got it reaked of fuel when I turned hard left.
A new filler neck hose and couple of vent hoses later I could breathe again.
SebastienPeek ·
Engine starts again.
Adjusted idle speed of carbs, seems to run smoother and won't die while idling now.
Have to do a couple more things (valve sets and new spark plugs) and then I'll reverse her out of the driveway and take her for her maiden voyage.
Then off to a carb specialist to get them tuned to perfection. As much as I want to learn the ins and outs of carb tuning, I'd much prefer to have it done by a professional then myself 🙂
bajachris88 ·
So how did you get the kitty litter out :P?
SebastienPeek ·
Air compressor and some love, and it came out. Slowly moving the cranskshaft around and around we got it out!
Such a good feeling to know she isn't seized like a mofo. 🙂
shokwave2 ·
Good to hear Seb.
Is your roof still squashed or have you pushed it out? Have you installed your Vintage Speed Exhaust? You'll have to post a vid once you have her running nice.
snitz ·
^^^^Im with shokwave2 aswell..flat roof or not continue your posts and post a vid of her running with the 'zorst..always looking forward to your posts and progress Seb.😎
SebastienPeek ·
Will post up some images, tonight I'm replacing the spark plugs and checking the valve settings 🙂
ancientbugger ·
Keep going mate, it will be worth it all in the end🙂
SebastienPeek ·
I have to admit, thanks must go to everyone for their input, and I am really glad that I gave David a call!
I must thank him a huge amount as without his help, Zelda would have witnessed another engine drop for no reason!
So, I took this photo this morning, it is just a teaser.
And tonight, I have got the carb linkage perfectly balanced so we have equal acceleration going to all four cylinders.
The next thing is to take her to a professional to get tuned perfectly and then I'll worry about the body.
Before anyone asks, I have pushed out the dent and it is looking much better.
Only have a shitty iPhone photo of it so I won't be uploading one, but will have one soon.
To the arsehole that jumped on my car thinking they'd kill Zelda, you didn't, she'll be back better than ever.
68AutoBug ·
Great to See Seb Got it sorted out OK..
The roof can probably popped back out... but You need the expertise of someone who has done it before...
and a bit of body filler..
engine bay looks neat.. cannot remember seeing a coil sitting there... lol
some people hide them behind the fan housing.. lol
I see You don't have a heater...lol
I will Be using mine from now on... in mornings and at night.
until it cools down more...
good to see a positive outlook...
LEE
SebastienPeek ·
68AutoBug wrote:Great to See Seb Got it sorted out OK..
The roof can probably popped back out... but You need the expertise of someone who has done it before...
and a bit of body filler..
engine bay looks neat.. cannot remember seeing a coil sitting there... lol
some people hide them behind the fan housing.. lol
I see You don't have a heater...lol
I will Be using mine from now on... in mornings and at night.
until it cools down more...
good to see a positive outlook...
LEE
Thanks Lee!
I've already popped the roof out a little, but will get a professional to take a look once she's back on the road.
Yeah, for now that's where the coil has to go as I don't have any larger leads floating around, otherwise she'd be mounted behind the fan shroud.
Yep! No more heaters, just a jumper in the morning and at night during winter.
But then again, it never had heaters as they weren't even connected...
Will report back later today depending on the outcome of starting her up and taking her around the block a couple of times.
SebastienPeek ·
Just my luck. Go to start her this morning and guess what?
The battery is dead.
Will charge the battery today and will hopefully have her driving tonight I guess.
Just wish for once something would go perfect without any issues!
ragged ·
Seb, dont forget to put the fan belt back on! Dave
SebastienPeek ·
Trust me Dave, I didn't forget!
I got the tinware to stop hitting the crankshaft pulley but looks like there is still something scraping, the tinware behind the crankshaft pulley is quite dodgy build quality...
New rocker covers should come today or Monday which will be cool, and then it is just the serpentine belt pulley.
It's odd though, this morning I started the car up and let it idle for a while, then I turned her off and fixed up the linkage a little.
Went to go and start it again and nope, she didn't want to start. The battery was flat.
Might change the pulley on the alternator too as that seems to be a tad bent as well.
Another job for tonight before her maiden voyage!
SebastienPeek ·
As of last night, around 10pm.
Joel ·
Now there's a desktop pic 👍
SebastienPeek ·
Already is Joel! 🙂
vlad01 ·
Smiley wrote:
68AutoBug wrote:a flooding carby will stop an engine from turning over too..
I've had that one.... lol so it doesn't take much to stop them
I have no idea how this works?
vlad01 wrote:this could have and probably has done serious damage. check the crank and rods aren't bent plus other components.
Turning it over by hand won't have caused any damage. Unless you tried putting some serious pressure and ramming it back and forward.
It's certainly won't have bent the crank or rods.
Smiley 🙂
but didn't he put kitty litter down it while it was running?
SebastienPeek ·
Wasn't running, thankfully...
hellbugged ·
Get a vintage speed roof rack to help cover the bumpy roof and get driving!
SebastienPeek ·
She's a fat chick though, I've never seen a fat chick with a roof rack before!
I'll hopefully be driving her tonight 😀
hellbugged ·
Have a look on thier website
SebastienPeek ·
Damn they're expensive ones! But they look bloody good.
I'm trying to get a roof cut organised as soon as possible.
68AutoBug ·
If that is a new alternator pulley check to see its NOT touching the alternator as it turns...
a lot of bad quality alternator and crankshaft pulleys about..
If You have just fitted the alternator pulley...
if You don't have enough shims under it, then it will be lopsided
as the belt pushes the side out..
Alternator belts are 11.3mm x 912mm wider than generator belts and don't stretch like generator belts , they have extra cords in them...
111 903 137E on My spare belt..
cheers
LEE
If You cut out the roof , it then needs to be reinforced all way round the hole... then You can put a herbie type vinyl roof in... lots of ways to do it without spending big dollars on a genuine sunroof... LEE
I just remembered seeing a beetle with a vinyl roof... these were big options on cars in the 70s.. a bit of padding and vinyl stuck to the roof to the gutter and around rear window.
black was the norm... but white or off white would be OK..
LEE
cheaper too...
grumble ·
68AutoBug wrote:If You cut out the roof , it then needs to be reinforced all way round the hole... then You can put a herbie type vinyl roof in... lots of ways to do it without spending big dollars on a genuine sunroof... LEE
I just remembered seeing a beetle with a vinyl roof... these were big options on cars in the 70s.. a bit of padding and vinyl stuck to the roof to the gutter and around rear window.
black was the norm... but white or off white would be OK..
LEE
cheaper too...
Don't forget the engineers certification,then it might not be a cheap option.
helbus ·
You wont need an engineers certificate if you do not cut into any cant rails (roof rails).
coletrickle ·
SebastienPeek wrote:She's a fat chick though, I've never seen a fat chick with a roof rack before!
I thought a fat chick was a type 3?but to be perfectly correct a fat chicks a vespa, fun to ride just don't let your mates catch you doing it!
SebastienPeek ·
Ahaha nah, fat chick in the sense that I said is a late model super beetle 🙂
Lee;
It's the alternator pulley, I think you're right in it being lop sided. All will be fixed with a Scat serpentine belt pulley system arriving this week 😉
Not turning her into a sunroof bug, albeit I'd love to do such a thing.
Will be a cut from another bug and graphed onto Zelda.
Unless someone finds me a beat up beetle with a sunroof?
Not a rag top, but one of the small front sunroof models.
I've seen a few photos of them and when done right, they look awesome.
Joel ·
SebastienPeek wrote:She's a fat chick though, I've never seen a fat chick with a roof rack before!
Mmm, you never see that sort of thing 😉
SebastienPeek ·
Ahaha thanks Joel!
Now I have seen plenty of fat chicks with roof racks, but they look weird if you ask me... Like they're trying to be an early but sort of style.
Fat chicks, in my eyes, are either Germanlook or stock as a rock...
🙂
vlad01 ·
SebastienPeek wrote:Wasn't running, thankfully...
haha wouldn't that be bad if it was 😂
SebastienPeek ·
Would've been disastrous!
Oh well, will update here when I get back on my laptop 😉
vlad01 ·
SebastienPeek wrote:Ahaha thanks Joel!
Now I have seen plenty of fat chicks with roof racks, but they look weird if you ask me... Like they're trying to be an early but sort of style.
Fat chicks, in my eyes, are either Germanlook or stock as a rock...
🙂
Fully race machine German look 👍
SebastienPeek ·
That's what the plan is man!
Got quite a few things coming in the next six months.
Putting a decent amount of cash into her soon, so excited about the body stuff.
eraser ·
I know its a bit late but, with a chop top in SA with a 68 but no engineers certificate is required. But obviously don't take my word for it, go phone regency. Thats what i was told anyway, when i was inquiring.