I'm in the process of deciding what exhaust system to use on the 1916 going in the back of the Beetle. I'm not bothered about heater boxes. Basically I'm of the mind to do it once and do it properly, so that brings it down to two systems:
* CSP Python
* Vintage Speed
I know that via DAS Resto Parts the CSP system will cost about $1,500 including J Pipes, and I need to call VVDS for a price on the Vintage Speed, so that might help me make my decision, but I was wondering what people's experiences were.
I've seen quite a bit on here recently about the Vintage Speed kit, and everyone seems to think they're great, but I'm wondering if anyone has feedback on the Python?
Volksworld did a comparison late last year on exhausts, and the page relating to them is below:
The test was done on a 2332cc engine with 48mm Dell'Ortos and 1:4 ratio rockers that had previously dynoed 150hp.
Their summary was:
"Vintage Speed: It is impossible to fault the quality of this system, but it is very expensive and was only able to match the power of the more budget offerings. But if you want a stock look for a big motor, this is a good option.
In the end, though, the numbers don't lie - CSP Python made more power than all the other exhausts, boasts excellent build quality and has a price between the top and bottom ends of the market"
If I really want, the CSP will also let me use heaters.
So what do people think??
Thanks
BiX ·
I can't comment, as I don't have either. I think I would go the CSP for myself if I had the money.
But how much woulc it cost to get a custom made set done? I know CES in springwood do a few VW exhausts up here. WOuld you be able to get them to copy the CSP and get it done cheaper and have it custom made to your setup? $1500 is allot of money....
vw54 ·
I have just fitted a Vintage Speed single outlet to my car its great and the sound is the best i had for years
I fitted bigger V / S J pipes into Stock Heater boxes as well and then had flanges welded to the J Pipes
the V / S mufflers and pipes are well made can not fault
The CSP is extreamly well made BUT VERY expensive thats the only problem
tar76 ·
I've got a VS on my Kombi and also getting one on the bug. My kombi is only a 1800 stock so i didn't notice really any difference except it sounded better. As for the bug i'll let you no in a few weeks, but i'm not running a real big motor in the 62 so maybe it will just improve sound and look.
vwo60 ·
Will your engine justify either of them, i took of a gene berg 1 3/4" merged header of a 2110 with 48DRLA's and replaced it with a 1 5/8" side winder from wolfsburg automotive, immediate improvement in driverability and picked up a lot of bottom end without a lose at the top end, you can buy three of these for one CSP, i even think that they are better built, i seen the welding on the CSP and it was very average. i also have a vintage speed on my convertable.
lohoon ·
I have a csp and the welds are perfect. Actually the whole thing is quality. Heater boxes are trick too
Bizarre ·
I like the idea of heater boxes.
Can you get VS with boxes rather than making them?
Craig S ·
So even without having called VVDS I can guess that the VS is cheaper than the Python judging by what David is saying!
I'm just looking at their 2012 catalogue (which I think came in a box from VVDS with other goodies) and there does seem to be a system available to attach to the heaters, but it doesn't seem to be a full merged system (but I could be wrong).
tar76 ·
Is your beetle lowered? Sometimes this can play a part as some systems don't have good ground clearence and if your slaming may want to keep that in mind.
Craig S ·
tar76 wrote:Is your beetle lowered? Sometimes this can play a part as some systems don't have good ground clearence and if your slaming may want to keep that in mind.
Yes, my Beetle is lowered but not slammed, so I believe either system will be fine. The Pobjoy deep sump is at much greater risk than the exhaust.
Paulc1964au ·
Vintage speed to have an exhaust that connects to heater boxes thats what I intend installing on mine
Got my first VintageSpeed exhaust over 2 years ago, I wouldn't use anything else now.
vw54 ·
I like the idea of heater boxes.
Can you get VS with boxes rather than making them?
No, VVDS had to get the J Pipes especially made by V / S to fit to my car so they got a few extra sets
You have to get a set of late model heater boxes with out the alloy heat sink around the origional tube
Then unseam them with heat and remove the old pipe and fit the new bigger dia V / S J Pipe and panel beat the seams closed bit of stuffing around but worth it
I have a single outlet muffler as well as i dont have the origional cut outs in the rear beaver
vw54 ·
new flange
vw54 ·
new heater box big J Pipe
vw54 ·
rear beaver
vw54 ·
rear view
vw54 ·
Craig
I think you will have to sit down when you find out the price of the CSP system
yes there really nice and even if you bring it in yourself the taxes n shipping will be over the top
matberry ·
The comparisons above are only part of the story, and actually not giving a fair comparison. The Vintage Speed recommeds their 48mm system for outright performance on 2.3 and larger engines. That test above is using a 42mm system. We found on Col's 2332 with the 44mm system that on the 1/4 mile we picked up around 5-6mph with the same engine/chassis combo and only the exhaust changed from a 1 5/8 fully merged with Fat Boy muffler to a VS full merge competition system as pictured in the pommy article. But in my mind this isn't the biggest improvement, the big winner is fit, reliability and ground clearance. The stock style design is so far superior in the way it supports the weight of the system, there is much less stress both on the heads and on the individual pipes than you get on the regular 4-1 design. Also the ground clearance improvement is a huge bonus, this also takes the stress out of the connections and tubes as each time a conventional 4-1 is dragged on the ground, the heads and pipe connections get stressed which promotes failure and /or leaks. Also the VS needs no removal for servicing, with mechanic's hourly rates where they are these days, saving 1/2 -1 hour each service saves $$$, if the exhaust lasts for 10 years......that's a big saving, if it lasts indefinately you tell me how much you save......
To run heaters the cheaper and lower performance systems are used, but all of the above benifits are still realised.
The retail price for the full competition VS system is $1290 +gst including freight to anywhere in Australia (depending on where you buy it 🙂 )
Craig Torrens ·
Hi Matt, with the VS Comp system can you adjust for a narrow (high comp 1915) motor ? I'm currently building a street motor but the width will be narrower than a stock 1600.
They are certainly a great (simple) looking option for perfomance and ground clearance.
Any pics of it on Cols car from underneath ?
66deluxe ·
I like my VS Type 4 system in my bug. It does seem loud but not as loud as the harley that goes up my street everyday.
matberry ·
Craig Torrens wrote:Hi Matt, with the VS Comp system can you adjust for a narrow (high comp 1915) motor ? I'm currently building a street motor but the width will be narrower than a stock 1600.
They are certainly a great (simple) looking option for perfomance and ground clearance.
Any pics of it on Cols car from underneath ?
The system allows for different widths by installing extra gaskets at the entry flanges into the muffler. Really depends on how much narrower, but the company is always open to custom requirements if need be. We have had a few custom orders at no extra charge. Damo's type 4 into type 1 wasn't even available at the time we supplied it.
This pic shows the small notch required to clear the lower tins.
Bizarre ·
OK - this maybe a dumb question....... but here goes.
I have had mufflers blow out before. I have seen stainless systems get holes and die in under 5 years.
Certainly stock exhausts and also Phat boy style.
I have a custom that is very similar to the CSP set up.
Any muffler problems and you just cut the old one off and weld a new one one... easy.
The header is there for life.
Like a stock system - if you get a hole in the VS system, you are vitrually up for a whole new system
vw54 ·
""" Like a stock system - if you get a hole in the VS system, you are vitrually up for a whole new system"""
put a patch on it with tig welding carnt see a problem
there does not appear to be any design problems like a stock exhaust where moisture and dirt get trapped cause things to rust
Craig Torrens ·
What's inside the side part of the system, is it a resonator or is it an expansion chamber ?
matberry ·
Craig Torrens wrote:What's inside the side part of the system, is it a resonator or is it an expansion chamber ?
No baffling, just an expansion chamber, the 48mm system is a little different in that area. This version has a baffle arrangement with the side entry inside the muffler so they are actually a little quieter than the cheaper version
tar76 ·
Also has the benefit of the side bung (VS), which correct me if i'm wrong is used for tuning purposes??
Bizarre ·
yes - you can put a sensor in there
tar76 ·
Anyone got a pic of a CSP system bolted on a bug, just want to see how it sits compared to the VS
vw54 ·
as per here
tar76 ·
There you go the sensor hole! Is your bug fuel injected vw54 ?
Bizarre ·
yes it is
Bizarre ·
tar76 wrote:Anyone got a pic of a CSP system bolted on a bug, just want to see how it sits compared to the VS
tar76 ·
Cheers Bizzare, sits nice.
SebastienPeek ·
Vintage Speed one on mine (even though it isn't the comp merged one) definitely has a nice exhaust note, and good ground clearance.
Albeit Zelda has a saggy arse, I still take all bumps at an angle just in case.
If you're really concerned about ground clearance, just be careful when driving...
Buy a CSP centre pull linkage kit steve, you will be very happy with that on the motor too 👍
SebastienPeek ·
CSP Centre kits are quite pricey, but should I be looking at getting one for my kadrons?
Craig Torrens ·
I wouldn't bother with the kit on the kads.......just make sure you set your linkage bar when the motor is at operating temp. If it is set when its cold the carbies will be out of balance.
SebastienPeek ·
Yeah, definitely set it when she had warmed up, she's running alright, just a bit of backfire on acceleration in second.
Think it might be something to do with the small air leak on the RHS manifold. Just don't have the time to get a gasket and fix it, but maybe Saturday!
1303Steve ·
Craig Torrens wrote:Buy a CSP centre pull linkage kit steve, you will be very happy with that on the motor too 👍
Whats wrong with a hex bar? I hardly ever touch it, the only time I need to adjust it is when I take the air cleaners off to change the plugs.
matberry ·
Any centre pull linkage is crap on Kaddies. They will not allow for the expansion of the engine. Gene Berg on the other hand have their fan housing mount linkage available with the arms and rods set up for Kadron's. I'm fitting one now......no carb sync issues at ANY engine temperature. 👍👍
tar76 ·
matberry wrote:Any centre pull linkage is crap on Kaddies. They will not allow for the expansion of the engine. Gene Berg on the other hand have their fan housing mount linkage available with the arms and rods set up for Kadron's. I'm fitting one now......no carb sync issues at ANY engine temperature. 👍👍
👍👍
SebastienPeek ·
Now I have to go and look for the Gene Berg one.
I don't know he made a hex bar type one for Kadrons, I couldn't find any when I was looking at the normal sites but now that I know I can get one, that's exciting!
Hmm, have to figure out how to order now, don't necessarily enjoy calling them up to make an order, would prefer to email or order via an online shopping cart...
SebastienPeek ·
Yeah, that would be awesome, if you could that'd be great!
Just a question, when screwing it to the fan shroud, what's the best way if the fan shroud itself isn't the original type?
This is mine...
Oh and Craig, I was reading an old VWMA issue, Das Dubber was the featured car, was awesome to actually see it more than just your avatar! 🙂
tar76 ·
Saw my Berg linkage and VS exhaust today (cheers Matt) and they both look the goods! Mate go with Matts advice and invest in the Berg it's money well spent and quality is top class. As for the VS heard it for the first time today on a upright motor and it has a really nice note, i was very stoked 😵.
SebastienPeek ·
Yeah, going to go the Berg linkage that is for sure, seems CT decided to remove his post that was before mine 🙁
The VS system is great, sounds awesome, but Zelda is quite low at the rear and I do get a bit of scrap coming out of driveways.
The added weight of the sub doesn't help either...
tar76 ·
SebastienPeek wrote:Yeah, going to go the Berg linkage that is for sure, seems CT decided to remove his post that was before mine 🙁
The VS system is great, sounds awesome, but Zelda is quite low at the rear and I do get a bit of scrap coming out of driveways.
The added weight of the sub doesn't help either...
Mine is low as well and the VS tucks up really nice, probably one of the best exhaust on the market for clearence issue's.... correct me if i'm wrong.
hellbugged ·
I can set you up for the linkage if you need
SebastienPeek ·
tar76 wrote:Mine is low as well and the VS tucks up really nice, probably one of the best exhaust on the market for clearence issue's.... correct me if i'm wrong.
No correction needed, I agree that it tucks up quite a bit, but I am still going to install a bash plate because Zelda will be going a lot lower soon.
SebastienPeek ·
hellbugged wrote:I can set you up for the linkage if you need
Quite possibly need you to hook me up, will get into contact you during the next week or so.
psimitar ·
The Python will flow better than the Vintage speed due to the path of the piping plus the vintage sticks 1&2 and 3&4 together and this isn't great for exhaust design and allowing the cylinders to be scavenged properly.
Also, buy directly from the CSP webshop as it's under $1k so no import duty and the shipping WILL not cost $500. Why waste your money giving it to a companies back pocket?
cb john ·
Have you got any charts to support the comment?
waltermitty ·
psimitar wrote:Also, buy directly from the CSP webshop as it's under $1k so no import duty and the shipping WILL not cost $500. Why waste your money giving it to a companies back pocket?
WRONG. The freight cost and tariff ( if applicable which often seems very arbitrary )is added to the item cost and if the total is over $1000 then you will pay GST on the full amount.
It still may well be worthwhile buying overseas but beware you will find shipping is usually expensive.
Mitchell
coletrickle ·
psimitar wrote:The Python will flow better than the Vintage speed due to the path of the piping plus the vintage sticks 1&2 and 3&4 together and this isn't great for exhaust design and allowing the cylinders to be scavenged properly.
Also, buy directly from the CSP webshop as it's under $1k so no import duty and the shipping WILL not cost $500. Why waste your money giving it to a companies back pocket?
As i posted eairler my VS 44mm comp on my 2332 is great its ground clearance fit etc is exellent.Now onto the performance side as a daily driven streetcar(I only have this car).Its faster by 1/10th than the old merged fatboy.Now there are many exhausts out there its your choice but ive never seen the back of a bug with a CSP or any other brand of exhaust as my car seems to be faster.I don't have a lot of money to spend so i tend to be selective as to where i spend my money,Berg linkage and shifter,Buttler Gearbox,Vintage Speed,Centerline,The rest is second hand stuff put together properly by Matt B!Anyone for a race I'm good to go?Or conversley lets have another kind of race,I challenge any CSP PYTHON exhaust of simular hide away exhaust to a valve adjusting race. Any takers?
P.S.for some strange reason my valves don't seem to go out of adjustment must be cause I don't rev it😂
Sides ·
waltermitty wrote:
psimitar wrote:Also, buy directly from the CSP webshop as it's under $1k so no import duty and the shipping WILL not cost $500. Why waste your money giving it to a companies back pocket?
WRONG. The freight cost and tariff ( if applicable which often seems very arbitrary )is added to the item cost and if the total is over $1000 then you will pay GST on the full amount.
It still may well be worthwhile buying overseas but beware you will find shipping is usually expensive.
Mitchell
Nah, sorry Mitchell but that's not right... and if some freight company has been telling you that, THEY'RE wrong. I've had this happen in the past, and actually got a complete refund on the amount they'd made me pay... duty, GST, the whole deal as my goods were valued at $970 which is obviously under $1000 even tho there was $200 odd on top for shipping.
The way it works if your goods are valued less than $1000 then GST and duty/tariffs are not payable.
BUT if worth more than $1000 then you have to pay duty/tariff based on what the goods are, then pay GST on the sum of value PLUS the duty/tariff PLUS the shipping costs.
Anyway, back to the original topic - I reckon both systems would work great, and I'd say for a street car or sleeper look go the VintageSpeed, while for something all out go the CSP.
I've got one of classic's sidewinders on Jezzi at the moment, but when it dies think it'll be a CSP I put on next... while it'll either be an Abarth replica or a VintageSpeed going on the Ghia.
👍
matberry ·
psimitar wrote:The Python will flow better than the Vintage speed due to the path of the piping plus the vintage sticks 1&2 and 3&4 together and this isn't great for exhaust design and allowing the cylinders to be scavenged properly.
So with this blanket statement, can you explain the disadvantages of the expansion chambers they use on the comp merged system?
psimitar wrote:Why waste your money giving it to a companies back pocket?
Why give your money to an Aussie company???? Well when you get the incorrect part you will wish you did, or in the case of the Vintage Speed, buying local will give you not only a saving as to what you pay buying direct, but you may also get advantages of a custom requirement that you didn't even know existed......
Sides ·
The expansion chamber is to do with the pressure and velocity of the spent gases going down the pipe in relation to a small vacuum it creates at the exhaust valve. Oh and a 2 into 1 with an expansion chamber can even out the pulses you get... similar to how a balancing tank helps when trying to get a good MAP signal from multiple IR throttle bodies. There's general guides and formula's for it all, but in the end it comes down to repeated build and test cycles to get something that works.
Giving $$$ to an Aussie company is a much easier question - we need local expert type companies around, so if it's something you need advice/assistance on like Matt says there's a benefit to having someone local, and IMHO worth paying a bit more for that. It's a Value Add - you're getting something you otherwise couldn't - and it's only reasonable to pay something for that service/knowledge/experience.
👍
Very different story from a place who's just reselling stuff from O/S and not really giving anything extra, couldn't fit the part to your car if their life depended on it and basically can't give any more info than on the manufacturer's website. Don't get me wrong - those guys have a place too, just they've made their business model completely excluding service, and so they have to compete directly on price or they'll lose.
😵💫
Sides ·
Oh - and of course my favorite at the moment... an Aussie company who designs something, and then assembles it here using O/S components to be sold here and in the US... WTF is it 20% cheaper for me to buy it from the US distributor and import it myself than to buy it direct !?!?!
😬
psimitar ·
waltermitty wrote:
psimitar wrote:Also, buy directly from the CSP webshop as it's under $1k so no import duty and the shipping WILL not cost $500. Why waste your money giving it to a companies back pocket?
WRONG. The freight cost and tariff ( if applicable which often seems very arbitrary )is added to the item cost and if the total is over $1000 then you will pay GST on the full amount.
It still may well be worthwhile buying overseas but beware you will find shipping is usually expensive.
Mitchell
I've bought plenty from overseas and has worked out very well. Check it out before you rule it out. Also, don't rely on CSP to do the shipping as they do screw people over on this just like CIP1 in the USA. It's a bit more hassle but I've found some international shippers that give much better rates than what CSP give.
VW Heritage in the UK are one of the best I've found for giviing exact postage pricing and not putting a profit margin on the post aswell.
psimitar ·
cb john wrote:Have you got any charts to support the comment?
This is from research I've been doing in exhaust system design. The basics require a 4into1 or 4into2into1 design. This relates to the firing order of the cylinders and if the Beetle is 1-4-3-2 then 1 & 3 and 4 & 2 should be merged togther in a 4-2-1 design. 4-2-1 gives better low and mid performance. 4-1 design gives more top end power but losses a bit from the low and mid range.
if you look at the vintage design you have 1&2, 4&3 merged together so causes the gases to not flow as well and the reverse wave gets cancelled out so the cylinder doesn't have the help of the reverse wave to scavange what left of the exhaust and help draw in fresh air-fuel mixture 😉
psimitar ·
Sides wrote:Oh - and of course my favorite at the moment... an Aussie company who designs something, and then assembles it here using O/S components to be sold here and in the US... WTF is it 20% cheaper for me to buy it from the US distributor and import it myself than to buy it direct !?!?!
😬
YOu pay 20% more here cos the Oz businesses do seem to do a lovely mark up on O/S items. The excuse of shipping and taxes is very lame cos when you do the maths it's still less than what they ask and also the O/S company generally give a 20-30 discount to an Aussie stockist of their products.
Making a profit is fine but blatant ripping people off ain't.
As for local knowledge, sure I use local when I have need but if it's something I'm knowledable of then I'll buy it cheaper.
vw54 ·
So whats the decision Craig S
Craig S ·
Um, don't know yet. I've been following this and listening to everything, and pondering.
The easier ability to include heaters with the CSP makes it tempting, but I just need to get off my backside and give VVDS a call about the Vintage Speed.
Either way I'll have to make a decision by the end of this week.
Oh and BTW, I'm happy to buy local because most workshops can't exist without selling parts, and most I've dealt with are happy to support the product they sell. Worth any extra in my book.
sander288 ·
Craig,
Do the CSP boxes not tie in with other systems like the Vintage Speed Heater box version or even a more conventional header?
psimitar ·
Hmm, just remembered that volksworld did an exhuast shoot out last year sometime. Pretty sure they did single and dual quiet packs, Vintage speed and the python. Send em an email and ask if you're interested as gave BHP results and may have even given torque/BHP graphs for each exhaust.
All were tested on the exact same engine with maybe the jetting and ign tweaked to get the best from each exhaust.
Craig S ·
psimitar wrote:Hmm, just remembered that volksworld did an exhuast shoot out last year sometime. Pretty sure they did single and dual quiet packs, Vintage speed and the python. Send em an email and ask if you're interested as gave BHP results and may have even given torque/BHP graphs for each exhaust.
All were tested on the exact same engine with maybe the jetting and ign tweaked to get the best from each exhaust.
You may want to read the OP!
Vintage and CSP came out on top, so I only included that page, and as Matt B pointed out, the testing (as you would expect in any simplified testing process) was imperfect.
Moving on from that I've now spoken to VVDS, and the base on the Vintage system is cheaper, but there is mucking about with the heaters, which will no doubt add cost in terms of labour.
If I utilise the current heater boxes, then the size of the pipe will be very restrictive (actually what is the diameter of a stock pipe??), but to get the boxes redone with larger pipes would be more expensive. Either way the performance is also obviously compromised compared to a fully merged system.
Still undecided 😬
Bizarre ·
Craig S wrote:actually what is the diameter of a stock pipe
1 3/8" or 35mm is stock
Your 1916 isnt a balls and all motor.
Believe it is pretty much like mine?? same cam?? 22/62??
My exhaust is 35mm goint to 38mm
To be honest - there are better places to spend your money
Craig Torrens ·
Bizarre wrote:
Craig S wrote:actually what is the diameter of a stock pipe
1 3/8" or 35mm is stock
Your 1916 isnt a balls and all motor.
Believe it is pretty much like mine?? same cam?? 22/62??
My exhaust is 35mm goint to 38mm
To be honest - there are better places to spend your money
Yep totally agree with Barry......waste of money IMO on a 60hp atw motor.
sander288 ·
I though stock pipes were 32mm? not 35mm?
I could be confused though as I don't often operate in a post 1967 beetle world...
sander288 ·
Craig S; bearing in mind what barry said; just take the stock pipes off the muffler and add some straight tubes!!!!
I did this on my 1300 before, it worked good except I had the wrong clamps holding the tailpipes on so I lost them over the course of last years supersprint...
Has anyone put either of these exhausts on a lowlight with engine bar and had any clearance issues? I see that vintage speed do a lowlight model but cant seem to see the engine pipe length's?
and are they available locally(Brisbane)?
As can only see that classic vee dub stocks the vintage speed?
vw54 ·
I ENJOYED my heaters this morning
WORTH the effort I sure notice the difference with the bigger J Pipes
vassy66T1 ·
RODZ wrote:Has anyone put either of these exhausts on a lowlight with engine bar and had any clearance issues? I see that vintage speed do a lowlight model but cant seem to see the engine pipe length's?
and are they available locally(Brisbane)?
As can only see that classic vee dub stocks the vintage speed?
I have a sidewinder (not CSP) and had to remake the entire rear engine support bar on my '69 lowlight.
The vintage speed kit looks like it should work with a lowlight and would have been my preference if I knew about them 2 years ago.
Alternatively, would you like a custom rear bar with a sidewinder and genie SS turbo muffler? .... going for around theprice of a Vintage Speed setup 😎
tar76 ·
Decision, decision's!! Go with ya gut mate either way you won't be disapointed they both are good systems.
psimitar ·
Craig S wrote:
psimitar wrote:Hmm, just remembered that volksworld did an exhuast shoot out last year sometime. Pretty sure they did single and dual quiet packs, Vintage speed and the python. Send em an email and ask if you're interested as gave BHP results and may have even given torque/BHP graphs for each exhaust.
All were tested on the exact same engine with maybe the jetting and ign tweaked to get the best from each exhaust.
You may want to read the OP!
Vintage and CSP came out on top, so I only included that page, and as Matt B pointed out, the testing (as you would expect in any simplified testing process) was imperfect.
Moving on from that I've now spoken to VVDS, and the base on the Vintage system is cheaper, but there is mucking about with the heaters, which will no doubt add cost in terms of labour.
If I utilise the current heater boxes, then the size of the pipe will be very restrictive (actually what is the diameter of a stock pipe??), but to get the boxes redone with larger pipes would be more expensive. Either way the performance is also obviously compromised compared to a fully merged system.
Still undecided 😬
Yea but that was a few pages ago now :P
Craig S ·
I suppose this is where I curse myself for buying new tinware that deleted heaters. Just as well I have some spares lying around that just need a clean up!
RODZ ·
so I ordered a vintage speed exhaust for the lowlight from classic veedub, ordered 10pm wednesday arrived on door step 3pm today and fitted soon after.
very happy with it so far fitted well, good sound for a stock motor, and is the first step to bringing the kombi down to ground level.
stay tuned.
tar76 ·
RODZ wrote:so I ordered a vintage speed exhaust for the lowlight from classic veedub, ordered 10pm wednesday arrived on door step 3pm today and fitted soon after.
very happy with it so far fitted well, good sound for a stock motor, and is the first step to bringing the kombi down to ground level.
stay tuned.
Nice 😎
Uber Kafer ·
2 local businesses are selling the CSP Python on-line or on ebay at the moment, $1050 and $1150. I doubt that it includes the nozzles.
I installed a 38mm system , including the matched size heater boxes, on a fresh 1600 twin port, basically stock, and I have the smallest nozzle fitted. Its beautiful to drive. Sound is perfect. Looks exactly like the orange convertible shown earlier.
We also have a Vintage Speed system, on an upright type 4. Not quite the same as the one you are looking at. The build is incredible, but its not a fully merged system so you cant compare them in that respect. Its always going to be a compromise.
I think the CSP Python is worth the extra cost. You can adapt it for any size engine by using different nozzles. Shouldnt ever rust through or blow out either.
Dasdubber ·
psimitar wrote:The Python will flow better than the Vintage speed due to the path of the piping plus the vintage sticks 1&2 and 3&4 together and this isn't great for exhaust design and allowing the cylinders to be scavenged properly.
Also, buy directly from the CSP webshop as it's under $1k so no import duty and the shipping WILL not cost $500. Why waste your money giving it to a companies back pocket?
I don't want to get the thread off topic, but felt I had to address this post. You may have done the Euro to A$ conversion on a different day so I acknowledge that it could have come in under $1K....but the system bought direct from CSP is 734 Euros plus $89 Euros for the J-pipes. On todays exchange rate thats A$1048. We sea freight and air freight parts from around the globe and would be interested to see how cheaply you could land such an exhaust as I'm always willing to find better alternatives to what we have, and henc adjust our prices accordingly.
I don't want to get into the GST/duty issue too far but I too have been slugged personally for parts under $1K but freight pushes it over the threshold. Admittedly I have not tried to get this reimbursed. As a business we have to pay GST and duties on everything whether our shipment is $200 or $20K. So our pricing has to factor that in as we get charged regardless. Without getting too bogged down into the cost of running a business (rent, electricity, insurance, work cover, IT, merchant fees, bank charges blah blah blah).....you would realise that the margins are very small on products like CSP. If someone has brought in a CSP system (with j pipes) for a cost far less than what we retail them for, please let me know and we can review the pricing, until then we hope others don't see it as "wasting money for a company's back pocket".
Jaycee is a good example, we cut out margins as close as we could to make it worthwhile to still stock the parts but obviously it was still too expensive for customers, so we no longer stock it. We always try to price our products in a way that it is comparable to going direct when you factor in the associated costs and risks (warranty problems, wrong items shipped, damaged during freight etc)....without making anything on the parts we may as well close the doors so people don't have a local alternative.
Sorry to get this off topic of CSP vs VS - I have used and fitted both systems, with each one having their own merits. Rant over 🙂
Cheers
AL
psimitar ·
Dasdubber wrote:
psimitar wrote:The Python will flow better than the Vintage speed due to the path of the piping plus the vintage sticks 1&2 and 3&4 together and this isn't great for exhaust design and allowing the cylinders to be scavenged properly.
Also, buy directly from the CSP webshop as it's under $1k so no import duty and the shipping WILL not cost $500. Why waste your money giving it to a companies back pocket?
I don't want to get the thread off topic, but felt I had to address this post. You may have done the Euro to A$ conversion on a different day so I acknowledge that it could have come in under $1K....but the system bought direct from CSP is 734 Euros plus $89 Euros for the J-pipes. On todays exchange rate thats A$1048. We sea freight and air freight parts from around the globe and would be interested to see how cheaply you could land such an exhaust as I'm always willing to find better alternatives to what we have, and henc adjust our prices accordingly.
I don't want to get into the GST/duty issue too far but I too have been slugged personally for parts under $1K but freight pushes it over the threshold. Admittedly I have not tried to get this reimbursed. As a business we have to pay GST and duties on everything whether our shipment is $200 or $20K. So our pricing has to factor that in as we get charged regardless. Without getting too bogged down into the cost of running a business (rent, electricity, insurance, work cover, IT, merchant fees, bank charges blah blah blah).....you would realise that the margins are very small on products like CSP. If someone has brought in a CSP system (with j pipes) for a cost far less than what we retail them for, please let me know and we can review the pricing, until then we hope others don't see it as "wasting money for a company's back pocket".
Jaycee is a good example, we cut out margins as close as we could to make it worthwhile to still stock the parts but obviously it was still too expensive for customers, so we no longer stock it. We always try to price our products in a way that it is comparable to going direct when you factor in the associated costs and risks (warranty problems, wrong items shipped, damaged during freight etc)....without making anything on the parts we may as well close the doors so people don't have a local alternative.
Sorry to get this off topic of CSP vs VS - I have used and fitted both systems, with each one having their own merits. Rant over 🙂
Cheers
AL
I'm glad your an honest business. 🙂
I was just letting people know another option as I have come across far too many companies lately that even with rent, taxes etc, that I have looked into before replying, are taking the mickey with mark ups in my eyes.
I looked at UK companies as I've dealt with a few and with the exchange rate and not having to pay VAT you can buy the system for Around $830 and the shipping will come in at around $150 ,IF you look around. Plus point of being an individual is depending on the country and company you deal with you don't have to pay that countries VAT. Not sure why an overseas company would have to either plus surprised CSP don't give a discount to an overseas company like most other companies I've dealt with from a business point of view have done.
Businesses do get it hard by the government for overseas imports but then again I have a friend who runs his own business and can undercut Siemens Australia by 40% and still make a profit of 20-30% on stock he buys.
So again, it was nothing personal and was just meant to give people another option IF they think the price is too high.
So to finish off the best I can say is 'Good on you for being an honest company that doesn't rip it's customers off'. You are part of a dying breed in this day and age and I tip my hat to you sir 😀
Dasdubber ·
No offence taken, I apprecaite your reply and can understand your perspective as I was a consumer going back a few years, and hence shopped around wherever I could including overseas.
We totally understand going direct is very attractive nowadays, and as mentioned above...that is why we try not to price ourselves out of the market. In saying that there is no point running a business if you can't turn a profit which I know you understand.
The decision to buy here or O.S. has to factor in a number of variables like price, but also customer service, unexpected costs, taxes/duties and also risk of damaged parts/wrong parts and hence cost to return to the supplier. Everyone weighs each of the above variables differently in their decision.
Cheers
Al
psimitar ·
Dasdubber wrote:No offence taken, I apprecaite your reply and can understand your perspective as I was a consumer going back a few years, and hence shopped around wherever I could including overseas.
We totally understand going direct is very attractive nowadays, and as mentioned above...that is why we try not to price ourselves out of the market. In saying that there is no point running a business if you can't turn a profit which I know you understand.
The decision to buy here or O.S. has to factor in a number of variables like price, but also customer service, unexpected costs, taxes/duties and also risk of damaged parts/wrong parts and hence cost to return to the supplier. Everyone weighs each of the above variables differently in their decision.
Cheers
Al
Indeed mate. You have to weigh your options and more carefully the costlier the item.
Just this week I shipped a decklid from Sydney and thinking of it's size thought it a safe bet that it was unlikely to be damaged and as the insurance option was nearly half the shipping cost I decided to go without.
Low and behold the bar stewards managed to let it fall over so that the popes nose bent the decklid inwards.
Forunately, I have a panel beating kit for such annoyances 🙂
Always a risk people 😉
SunshineKarmann ·
Time to drag this thread out of the woods. Recently purchased a 1.5 inch CSP Python system from CIP1. Landed at my door 4 days from order date for a total price of $1120, including matching J pipes. Outstanding price and delivery, mind you this was on sale due to their current Christmas special.
The primary reason for choosing the python was based on performance, sound and the ability to achieve a nice snug fit with the muffler mounted at an angle. Love the tuckaway look as well.
tar76 ·
Would love to hear it. Easy fit or did you have to do some mods?
SunshineKarmann ·
It is currently wrapped and under the Christmas tree! It never ceases to amaze me how my wife can find exactly what I wished for! 😵💫 Will let you know how it fits up once done. Give me a week, need time to fit up the 1904 and Rancho as well. Got heaps of wiring, plumbing and plenty of cursing to come.
empi ·
I have a VS on my KG, best $500 odd bucks i have spent, quality, sound etc all 100% . Still uses heater boxes and fitment u could have done with your eyes shut.
splitbus ·
Vintage speed exhaust system with headers $680 delivered to my door sounds great works a treat
splitbus ·
Python
VS
zayus ·
Found this old post...
I have the CSP exhaust system and the heater boxes - 42 mm.
Delivered way back in February 2010, and still in the box.
Hopefully, on the car, soon.
Cost:
- Python exhaust: $1228.00
- heater boxes: $740.62
- paid NO duty
- phew!
- still, too f#@!ing expensive!
Will have pictures by Spring, this year.
Does anyone have pictures of their bug with a CSP?
Do the CSP heater boxes work with heads like, DRD L5s (40x35.5)? aircooled.net reads, no heater boxes.
Bryce
sander288 ·
Hi Zayus,
In the VW tech/FAQ section there is this thread, with a dropbox full of images of VW's with common/popular exhausts
With reference to the DRD heads and ACN saying not to use heater boxes, that is if using stock heater boxes with the heavy internal fins etc... if the heater boxes you've bought from CSP are their ones with the LARGER internal tubes you'll be fine. That is why CSP made them, so ze germans don't need to freeze their pretzels in winter whilst running a hopped engine.
zayus ·
Hey Sander,
Thanks for the info.
RE: the CSP heater boxes, I think, that's why I bought them.
I really need to get the car on the road!
Zayus
zayus ·
CSP heater boxes.
Well made, and light compared to factory heater boxes.
Gotta love ze Germans!
melbdubguy ·
Hello all, thought I might rekindle this post and find out how the VS systems have held up after so many years. I am in the market at the moment so any comments welcomed
vw54 ·
I am in the market at the moment so any comments welcomed