Just something I've been pondering for a little while.
When fitting an intercooler to a force inducted car, does it matter if it's fitted before or after the turbo/blower?
It seems to be common practice to fit them after the compressor, but I figured if the turbo/blower heats the air up by X and then the cooler cools it down by Y, then it wouldn't matter which order that they are in.
If anyone has any more experience on this I'd love for you to give your advice.
Smiley 馃檪
ian.mezz 路
EFI or Carby ???
Joel 路
It's gotta be after.
Compressing air by a turbo or supercharger generates heat.
intercooler just sheds some of that heat so putting it before is not going to do anything except add weight.
Come on Mr Mezz you having one of them fancy turbo and intercooler thingys in your bug like I don't should know that one 馃槈
Although interfoolers impress the chicks even when a turbo isn't necessary 馃槀
also be sure to mount the number plate to the side for maximum respect...
mactaylor 路
its called the law of diminishing returns!
Smiley 路
I don't think it matters if it's EFI or Carbied. Principle is the same on both.
I thought that you would chime in Joel, and I knew thqat if you did you'd have the answers.
When you ran the SC12 in your car did you give any consideration to an intercooler? Did the engine temps go up by any noticeable amount? Was the oil hotter?
Smiley 馃檪
Joel 路
Yep EFI and carb doesn't matter unless its draw through carb which brings me to my blower.
Cant run an intercooler with a draw through carb setup.
Because the fuel mix is going through the blower/turbo you cant then feed that through the intercooler, good chance it could explode, not to mention the fuel wouldnt stay in suspension as a vapour so engine wouldn't run too well.
Wouldnt matter if it was EFI though as only air is going through, 4Agze toytoas that SC12s come off are intercooled draw through but efi.
The answer for carbed draw through setups is water injection.
Smiley 路
I see. Very good information.
Did your engine run hotter at all?
I think you would have to run some sort of intercooler/water injection if you wanted the engine to last a decent amount of time. To keep the inlet temps down and the heads running cooler.
Smiley 馃檪
Joel 路
Nah not with the boost I ran.
Intake temp and boost are related, the more you crank the boost up the more heat is generated.
It really depends on so many things but if boost levels are kept sensible engines can live high mileage.
100s of factory turbo model cars never had intercoolers.
Smiley 路
Ok. Here's a question for those playing at home.
Lets say we have a fuel injected system with a supercharger and an intercooler. Does the throttle body go before or after the blower? And if after does it go before or after the intercooler?
Smiley 馃檪
Joel 路
The TB can go either side but if it goes after (blow through) you need a blow off valve to vent boost on throttle shut to stop compressor surge and blowing intake hoses.
Smiley 路
Joel wrote:The TB can go either side but if it goes after (blow through) you need a blow off valve to vent boost on throttle shut to stop compressor surge and blowing intake hoses.
So with a fuel injected setup are there any other advantages/disadvantages of a blow through compared to a draw through??
Smiley 馃檪
vlad01 路
Joel wrote:Yep EFI and carb doesn't matter unless its draw through carb which brings me to my blower.
Cant run an intercooler with a draw through carb setup.
Because the fuel mix is going through the blower/turbo you cant then feed that through the intercooler, good chance it could explode, not to mention the fuel wouldnt stay in suspension as a vapour so engine wouldn't run too well.
Wouldnt matter if it was EFI though as only air is going through, 4Agze toytoas that SC12s come off are intercooled draw through but efi.
The answer for carbed draw through setups is water injection.
Yes and also the intercooler will condense the AF mixture back to liquid fuel from the cooling effect and large internal surface area.
vlad01 路
Joel wrote:The TB can go either side but if it goes after (blow through) you need a blow off valve to vent boost on throttle shut to stop compressor surge and blowing intake hoses.
not to mention possibly damaging the turbine by stalling it.
vlad01 路
Smiley wrote:
Joel wrote:The TB can go either side but if it goes after (blow through) you need a blow off valve to vent boost on throttle shut to stop compressor surge and blowing intake hoses.
So with a fuel injected setup are there any other advantages/disadvantages of a blow through compared to a draw through??
Smiley 馃檪
well draw through on efi would be just plain stupid. but yeah EFI has tons of advantages over carby, with little disadvantage (dependent on the person)
in my eyes efi has no disadvantage and all advantage.
Joel 路
vlad01 wrote:
Joel wrote:The TB can go either side but if it goes after (blow through) you need a blow off valve to vent boost on throttle shut to stop compressor surge and blowing intake hoses.
not to mention possibly damaging the turbine by stalling it.
Yeah, that's compressor surge, it's takes alot to do damage, alot of the boy racers think its fully sick to make the Flutterz yo.
I dunno what they're on about I reckon it sounds absolutely stupid.
But that's one of the upsides to a draw through EFI system, you don't get compressor surge.
Draw through EFI isn't that stupid, all of Toyota's Supercharged GZE setups are intercooled draw through.
Works well with the stock air bypass setup.
Just runs N/A till you really get on the noise pedal then the bypass shuts and the blower clutch pulls in with a nice smooth transition.
Smiley 路
vlad01 wrote:well draw through on efi would be just plain stupid. but yeah EFI has tons of advantages over carby, with little disadvantage (dependent on the person)
in my eyes efi has no disadvantage and all advantage.
I agree with you that EFI has a lot of major advantages, but could you explain exactly why a draw through fuel injected system is just plain stupid?
Smiley 馃檪
Flintstones 路
Joel wrote:Cant run an intercooler with a draw through carb setup.
I'm guessing you aren't aware of Chad Tostenson 10 sec street driven beetle then.
He's proved that you can.
Personally I wouldn't try draw thru with an A2A cooler or on a conventional motor......
Cheers
Joel 路
Yeah I'm aware of it, there's been a few threads on Shoptalk forums about it but you can't compare that to your average back yard force fed conversion running on oridinary pump fuel and besides look at the size of it, w2a charge coolers are more effecient and compact yes but it's still tiny and wouldn't be doing all that much on an engine that size.