Google ULX110 oil
That might help
Its not an additive but an oil with a good concentration of zinc.
You have to get it right as too much can have just as bad an effect as too little?
Any one else using a ZDDP additive in there oil. i have alreadt spoken to the penrite engineer about the choice of oil for my aplication and the recommendation is to use the HPR 30, i have run this oil for years without issues, when i stripped the old engine that come in the car it had major failure of the cam followers, these were CB light weight lifters running on a engle FK 87 cam, i do not want a repeat of this problem.
Thanks.
68AutoBug ·
CASTROL GAVE Me these specs for GTX Zinc 850ppm P 750ppm
and Magnatic Zinc 850ppm and Phosp 800 ppm
anyone know what percentage these are??
I also notice that Penrite classic has the old classification of SG/CD
so, maybe any oil with that classification should do the job
that is if any are still available..? I also notice they say to change the oil at every 3000miles or 5000klms..
LEE
Gracey ·
I'm currently using ZDDPlus, and I haven't had any problems so far.
vwo60 ·
Thanks for that, thats what i wanted to hear, some one who has actually used a aditive, Lee, you need to look at oil that has a higher zddp content, 850PPM is a bit low, the penrite oil range has a content between 1200PPM and 1600PPM. gracey how much do you use and the quantity of oil in your engine. thanks.
Shayne
vlad01 ·
68AutoBug wrote:CASTROL GAVE Me these specs for GTX Zinc 850ppm P 750ppm
and Magnatic Zinc 850ppm and Phosp 800 ppm
anyone know what percentage these are??
I also notice that Penrite classic has the old classification of SG/CD
so, maybe any oil with that classification should do the job
that is if any are still available..? I also notice they say to change the oil at every 3000miles or 5000klms..
LEE
thats shit, you need at least 1300 ppm (a safe margin) or more for flat tappet old technology engines Lee.
Try Job Gibs DT50 aircooled oil, should be hitting Aussie stockists soon. Its the most highly developed with the most R & D of any vw/porsche air cooled oil in existence as I understand.
BP oil (Brad Penn) is another good one.
Penrite is ok for older engine design with 1100 ppm for the standard synthetic HPR range of oils, their classic/vintage oil probably have more.
ACE 30 has 1000? ppm but formulated with higher anti oxidizer additives to reduce break down from oxidation of the other oil additives from higher temps.
end of the day a person makes his/hers own decision to which oil they use. 😁
helbus ·
Penrite GAS Premium has 0.129% Zinc. I think this is about 1290PPM. I have always use Penrite GAS for my LPG Holden, my motorbike, the Beetle and the Kombi.
The Kombi now gets HPR10 for the Subaru engine.
fish26 ·
Brad Penn gets my vote
vassy66T1 ·
My stroker with over 50,000 kms using ACE30. No signs of any lifter wear in valve check/adjust.
vwo60 wrote:Thanks for that, thats what i wanted to hear, some one who has actually used a aditive, Lee, you need to look at oil that has a higher zddp content, 850PPM is a bit low, the penrite oil range has a content between 1200PPM and 1600PPM. gracey how much do you use and the quantity of oil in your engine. thanks.
Shayne
I add 1 bottle of zddp to 5L of Castrol Edge 25w-50.
My motor only takes a bit over 2.5L as I run a Pobjoy anti surge sump and no external oil cooler.
I haven't seen anyone recommend using a synthetic oil for a VW engine which still needs to be changed at 3000miles or 5000klms
unless its modified... with proper crankcase ventilation etc..
even Penrite say still change the oil at 3000 miles 5000 klms in VW engines with their classic car oils..
LEE
68AutoBug ·
helbus wrote:Penrite GAS Premium has 0.129% Zinc. I think this is about 1290PPM. I have always use Penrite GAS for my LPG Holden, my motorbike, the Beetle and the Kombi.
The Kombi now gets HPR10 for the Subaru engine.
Sounds good Pete
LEE
vlad01 ·
Yeah Penrite is probably the best off the self available everywhere oil, but for much better specialized oil like Brad Penn, Joe Gibs, ACE 30 etc... are required.
68AutoBug ·
vwo60 wrote:Any one else using a ZDDP additive in there oil. i have alreadt spoken to the penrite engineer about the choice of oil for my aplication and the recommendation is to use the HPR 30, i have run this oil for years without issues, when i stripped the old engine that come in the car it had major failure of the cam followers, these were CB light weight lifters running on a engle FK 87 cam, i do not want a repeat of this problem.
Thanks.
Hi
I have just ordered some ZDDP MAXX from the USA
interesting reading as they say NOT to over do it..
to balance it out... still trying to sort out how much I'll need... in 5 litres of GTX oil..
LEE
vwo60 ·
You will have to be carefull as to much zinc is just is bad as not enough, i have worked out for my application that half a bottle of additive to six liters penrite HPR30 is about right, the oil has 1217PPM of zinc already and i feel a full bottle would be to much, i have tried to find out from the manufacturer's of the additives what PPM you would have if you put a full bottle of there additive into five liters of oil with no zinc and to date no one has given me a answer, the oil you use already is low on zinc so more that half the bottle might be advisable.
coletrickle ·
Lucas do a straight 30 with zinc I think they sell it as a flat tappet break in oil for v8's it might be worth a look.as for my beast I've been using Ace 30 no complaints,as for penrite I know a guy who went from Ace30 to the penrite and for no extra chage he got another 25 degrees oil temp👎
68AutoBug ·
vwo60 wrote:You will have to be carefull as to much zinc is just is bad as not enough, i have worked out for my application that half a bottle of additive to six liters penrite HPR30 is about right, the oil has 1217PPM of zinc already and i feel a full bottle would be to much, i have tried to find out from the manufacturer's of the additives what PPM you would have if you put a full bottle of there additive into five liters of oil with no zinc and to date no one has given me a answer, the oil you use already is low on zinc so more that half the bottle might be advisable.
Yes, they say that too much is just as bad as not enough and give ppm figures to work on.
Castrol GTX has 850ppm so they told Me about a few months ago..
the person who wrote the info on ZDDP Maxx on ebay can't spell and the details are a bit confusing... along with no actual details of how big the bottles are???
I'm presuming they are 2 US ounces.. which sounds very small
anyway will see when they arrive..
LEE
vwo60 ·
I find the oil temp increase a little hard to follow as ace oil is nothing special, even the zinc content is below what is recommended for a flat tappet cam engine, if that is the issue i will get a oil temp in my car of 75 degrees if i change to ace oil ,thats funny, i will have to remove the oil cooler.
coletrickle ·
vwo60 wrote:I find the oil temp increase a little hard to follow as ace oil is nothing special, even the zinc content is below what is recommended for a flat tappet cam engine, if that is the issue i will get a oil temp in my car of 75 degrees if i change to ace oil ,thats funny, i will have to remove the oil cooler.
I didn't post about the oil temp increase for anyother reason than to put it out there as I thought it may be of some intrest to some.The lucas oil I mentioned that for the same reason.I'm happy to try and add to the discussions here that may help people build a reliable shit hot VW streeter that dosent cost the earth,which I assume you may be intrested in?You driving your bug to warrick?
vwo60 ·
I have read a couple of oil tests and the most difference i have seen in a controlled test was about three degrees, as i stated i find this difference unbelievable. both the oils are a mineral oil and would have similar ability to transfere the heat. there would be some other issue causing the temp increase to that degree, as i currently run penrite in all of our cars and have tried many different oils over the years, i have never had any thing like the temp increase of 25 degrees happen to me, i would be a warwick the only problem is i am working over seas offshore at the moment.
sander288 ·
after reading this thread it got me thinking about the oil I am using so I did some research into a few brands of oil to see what their zddp (zinc) content was
I currently use Castrol Edge Sport 25W-50
Castrol Edge Sport 25W-50 - mineral oil (not synthetic) - $50 5L (supercheap)
*SEE MY OTHER POST LATER IN THREAD***
All Brad Penn oils (weight of oil doesn't matter) - 20W-50 $127 + delivery (12x 1 quart bottles)
zinc: 0.15% (1500ppm)
phos: 0.14%
🤘Royal Purple - at $95 for 5L on special at supercheap I didn't bother
ACE30 - QP Lubes website is under construction so I couldn't find the info from the horses mouth
I know that the historic formula vee crowd is running the brad penn oil in their engines; in terms of cost the Penn oil isn't that much more expensive because if your using the other oils and then an additive it wouldn't come out that much cheaper IMHO
What am I going to do now? Probably buy a case of Brad Penn in 15W40 or 20W50; but with that said I'm still happy using the oil I've got and would also happily use Penrite HPR30 as I used to before I had the motor rebuilt
With all the above said a Castrol Tech had written a piece about zinc in oil etc and he commented that for the anti-wear properties of the zinc to be properly activated the oil needed to reach a temp of at least 80 degrees Celsius so no matter what if your engine is running too cool it will wear quicker
my 2c
Cheers
Shaun
vwo60 ·
I have a print out from the penrite site and the HPR 30 is listed with a zinc content of 1217PPM, the highest in the penrite range is the running in oil at 1600PPM.
sander288 ·
vwo60 wrote:I have a print out from the penrite site and the HPR 30 is listed with a zinc content of 1217PPM, the highest in the penrite range is the running in oil at 1600PPM.
here is one I just got off the website again; using the website not google - Sept 2012 up to date the zinc content is actually less than the other data sheet
tar76 ·
Ive been using Penrite in the bus and ACE30 in the bug. Not really sure which i like the best yet. I haven't been using ACE for that long as i always used Penrite 30 non syn before i was put onto ACE. I'd be ineterested in trying that DT150
matberry ·
I've had customers comment on the improved engine quietness and oil life when they have switched from Penrite to ACE, similarly Castrol to ACE. I've been using ACE for around 5 years now, even pulled down a few engines that have been on it, one of which exclusively used ACE and bearing, cam and lifter condition has been superb. I don't like Penrite as I believe it to be excessively thick for it's rated viscosity which IMO impedes piston and bearing cooling.
Craig Torrens ·
I'm using Brad Penn.......so far so good.
BRUTUS ·
The level of Zn in Pen. HPR 30 is 0.11% (as advertised, Nov. '11) -- and on Prod. Data sheet (at Sept. 2012), the other values may be for another product?
It is also 25W-60 SAE, which may be a bit thick, but OK for worn/large clearances. It is now SM, and is friction-modified. All mass-market products change quite often to chase the latest market/ing trends, they "have to".
There is an array of "good" oils for various situations, loads, temperatures and motors, and what suits one might not suit another.
Apparent temperature variations within the one motor are probably mainly due to viscosity change/issues - e.g. too thick AT the particular working temp. to flow nicely to cool... Zn etc. levels (within reason) shouldn't affect temp. that much. Visc. of HPR 30 is 24cSt at 100C. ACE 30 & 40 are thinner at 15 & 20cSt respectively, so may flow, & cool a little better...
The level of Zn in ACE oils (30 & 40 etc.) has always been 0.11%, or 1100ppm. P (phosphorus) is 0.10% or 1000ppm. (There is an "optimum" level for Zn, P, S ... and all things... i.e. too much of anything can degrade other properties, or may be potentially 'harmful' in unexpected ways.) No responsible oil maker will EVER officially advise the use of an extra additive to their oil. Can you guess why?
QPL lead me to believe the ACE oils (30 & 40 in particular) were made primarily for high temperature performance/withstand... thinking 'Kombi'; 'Type 3' etc.
Anyway the experts at QPL told me they did not set out to make their ACE oils the absolute highest in anti-scuff (Zn) additives. [I suppose that could become an interesting 'race'!]
BP's 'GTX' is not particularly suitable for air-cooled engines, may be OK for cool-running engines & low loads. Most friction-modifieds, semi-and full synthetics, and mineral grades with lower-than-necessary W numbers are also not good for engines that are run only occasionally. These thin (at ambient temp.) oils run off on storage, allowing corrosion.
Just my $20 worth (inflation - sorry!)
Too much Zn, P, S, or whatever can degrade high-temperature performance.
If you add significant extra ZDDP -- or many other other 'anti-wear' additives -- to any commercially-available engine oil, make sure you change it ON, or Before, the time due.
colin ·
I have just read this thread and find all the comments very interesting.
Engine oil preference can be a personal thing and create it,s far share of controversy.
The below image shows a bearing taken out of my hillclimb engine after a full years hard racing. As you can see it,s perfect.
The engine has a rev limit set at 7700rpm for most events and the occasional 8000rpm for Grafton and Ringwood. Keith rebuilds my engine and allways uses Brad Penn running in oil.
I then use valvoline VR1 racing Oil 10w-40. This oil is off the shelf semi synthetic and not to expensive. It,s zddp is from memory around 1280ppm.
Another hot topic that gets a few opinions going is oil pump size.
My engine turning high rpm uses a 23mm oil pump. Yes that not a typo, 23mm, Has stacks of oil pressure and never red lights out of corners.
Is Keith a very good engine builder, no, he,s the best, are oil pump sizes to big in some applications, yes.
Just my personal thoughts.😎
Cheers Col
68AutoBug ·
colin wrote:I have just read this thread and find all the comments very interesting.
Engine oil preference can be a personal thing and create it,s far share of controversy.
The below image shows a bearing taken out of my hillclimb engine after a full years hard racing. As you can see it,s perfect.
The engine has a rev limit set at 7700rpm for most events and the occasional 8000rpm for Grafton and Ringwood. Keith rebuilds my engine and allways uses Brad Penn running in oil.
I then use valvoline VR1 racing Oil 10w-40. This oil is off the shelf semi synthetic and not to expensive. It,s zddp is from memory around 1280ppm.
Another hot topic that gets a few opinions going is oil pump size.
My engine turning high rpm uses a 23mm oil pump. Yes that not a typo, 23mm, Has stacks of oil pressure and never red lights out of corners.
Is Keith a very good engine builder, no, he,s the best, are oil pump sizes to big in some applications, yes.
Just my personal thoughts.😎
Cheers Col
Yes, I have read where the standard size oil pump on a beetle engine is large enough and larger pumps are NOT needed.. even on larger engines..
can't remember who wrote it..
LEE
68AutoBug ·
Sander288
My engine temp hovers 95C to 100C most of the time at 100KMH at around 23C + outside temperature
I have just opened My engine lid top for summer so hopefully the gauge will Not get over 100C although the dipstick temperature Light hasn;t flashed or come on..
LEE
oil sender is located where the type 3 engine dipstick was..
with Castrol GTX 20w/50 oil $28-00 at BIG W 5 litres
vwo60 ·
I have also pulled down a few engine that have run on penrite HPR 30 only and have found the engine's to be in very good condition also, it's also how you maintain the the engine overall that contribute's to it's life span
68AutoBug ·
matberry wrote:I've had customers comment on the improved engine quietness and oil life when they have switched from Penrite to ACE, similarly Castrol to ACE. I've been using ACE for around 5 years now, even pulled down a few engines that have been on it, one of which exclusively used ACE and bearing, cam and lifter condition has been superb. I don't like Penrite as I believe it to be excessively thick for it's rated viscosity which IMO impedes piston and bearing cooling.
many people think thick is better...
but a VW air cooled engine is also cooled by the oil...
so, it has to flow thru the engine and fast to keep everything cooler..
so 20w/60 isn't a good move...
LEE
vwo60 ·
I have had no problems with the HPR30, i have run that in a varity or engines for about 20 years. so i am quite sure that if there was a problem it would have surfaced by now.
sander288 ·
Hi everyone;
Just got off the phone with a Castrol tech regarding their Edge products; as their isn't sufficient information online to compare directly with the Penrite products in terms of zddp & phos. I'd thought I share exactly what he said as it's good not be reading hearsay about products so that we can all make an informed choice whatever brand we decide.
Edge 25W-50 - Mineral
zinc: 1000-1240 ppm
phos: 900-1130 ppm
He recommended the 25w-50 for most applications but suggested if cold cranking is a common thing, like New England, Snowy Region, Canberra etc.. then the synthetic would be a better choice, although he was biased he did say both are suitable for a tappet/pushrod engines; personally if I was running the synthetic I'd be putting in some additive; or just use Penrite HPR 15 if I had to have synthetic.
Cheers
Shaun
steve burgess ·
Iam about to try some cam shield http://www.cam-shield.com/in my new motor.
It is available from Pier Side Parts.
matberry ·
steve burgess wrote:Iam about to try some cam shield http://www.cam-shield.com/in my new motor.
It is available from Pier Side Parts.
Yep, JPM sells the camshield with his cam packages too, I've been using the assembly lube on most builds for a few years with no cam/lifter problems IF the valve train is up to speed.
Here is the link to the LN Engineering tests. A very good article, I've read this a while back but recently sent to me by the chemist who formulates ACE (thanks John). It mentions in here, more isn't always better when talking ZDDP (amongst other things).
im going to be using penrite 15w 50 10 tenths syn once i get the turbo going ill be using an oil filter setup as well so i get the most out of the oil its rated at 1250 zinc rating