Things not to do to your VW

I would love to name and shame but we all know that's not such a good idea. I see this type of thing SO often it makes me very sad, so I feel it necessary to share some of these experiences so that people understand that new doesn't always mean good, and just because someone says 'it's all been done' doesn't mean take anything for granted.

For the first example I will use the most recent.

This is a performance VW engine built by a professional VW specialist. It cost a lot of money and the design brief was for a reliable, torquey engine that will be understressed and live a long life.

The owner was actually very lucky as it caught fire due to carburettor issues that actually saved a catastrophic failure.

So you're aware, it's not just the engine builder at fault here, also with something to answer for is the shop selling the parts. Here the guy behind the counter actually advised against some of the parts manufactures specifications claiming he knew better. This advice was also partly to blame for some of the premature failures inside the engine.

Firstly a brief engine overview

2276cc 82mm Scat crankshaft x 94mm Mahle piston & barrel kit
New aluminium high roof shuffle pinned engine block
New 043 VW heads
Dual 36mm Dellorto carbs

to date this engine has done around 5000km and been 'maintained' by the builder.....🤪

Here's a pic of what came out of the carby accelerator pump. The globs of sh1t on the bench and screw driver were solid behind the diaphram and completely blocking the circuit passages and one way valves.




The next beauty is swarf, that's right, metal shavings that were in the oil passages, this pic is the now blank one end oil pump outlet gallery in the case where the swarf has accumulated




This one is a ripper...here the dude decided to put the bigger cam bearing in the #3 bearing location, but forgot to mod the bearing for the oil drain, therefore compromising the bearing




More tomorrow

Oh it gets better people. I saw this engine.

looks like its up there with the infamous red silicon engine builder for quality.

Dude, my mother-in-laws Mazda 3 MP23 is 6 years old and been regularly serviced by the main dealer. I've been driving it lately and found the auto box to be rather notchy and jerky so thought I'd check the oil. Overfilled and blacker than the black stump. Oh how very well serviced.

I feel sorry for people that know nothing about cars cos in my experience you get ripped off left, right and centre when not in the know yet you don't even know you're being screwed over. 🙅

Nothing worse than shelling out $ and getting $h!t

That is disgusting. Fixing other peoples bodgie work is more difficult than doing it right in the first place.

Being a panel-beater by trade, I have had to re-do some shocking repairs in the past, and I know exactly how you must feel, Matt. Hope it all turns out O.K.

Good post.
Who was the builder, you know its the question everyone is wanting to ask?
I am just relieved that I have a good engine builder.

This is one reason that i do all my own work, i had a later box fitted to a 60 beetle by a repairer who i thought was alright until it broke clutch cables all the time. when i had a look at it the bowden tube was too long, when i approched him he just said bad luck, basicly piss off, had to shorten the clutch tube were it come's out of the tunnel next to the gearbox, have not broken a cable since. I make certain that i tell every body to steer clear of him all the time.

vwo60 wrote:This is one reason that i do all my own work, i had a later box fitted to a 60 beetle by a repairer who i thought was alright until it broke clutch cables all the time. when i had a look at it the bowden tube was too long, when i approched him he just said bad luck, basicly piss off, had to shorten the clutch tube were it come's out of the tunnel next to the gearbox, have not broken a cable since. I make certain that i tell every body to steer clear of him all the time.

If you don't mind - can you tell me who it is so that I can stay away from him too? I'm in Victoria.

My brother got caught by one of these "pro" engine builders aswell. $6k for less than 5000km of engine life. The flywheel and gland nut was glued in because of a poor fit or quality. the flywheel all but cam off destroying the rear main seal, mating surfaces and rear bearing. after pulling the engine down we found alot of the same evidence you are posting above. not a simple mistake, but just hands down lack of concern for the finished product

might be the same guy?

Thanks for your comments to this thread. feel free to add your stories of woe ;(

One thing that worries me with this one, is that this is a combination of shops. The original builder, the parts supplier AND the next workshop that also had a go at it. All been around VWs for a very long time !!!!

This is the way the lower tinware was 'modified' to clear the exhaust.......shame there was no concern for the damaged pushrod tubes that were now bent and rubbing on the pushrods




not just one side either......this guy is good 😉




Here at the very top of the pic you can see where the full flow feed line fitting must have cracked the case during fitting or tapping the thread so he had the case welded




The missing bolt on the top case join was exactly that.......missing




Similar to the sump stud that was too short so .....hey, 5 nuts will be more than enough.....surely????




last tonight is this beauty....how many threads do you really need to hold the head on?????

wow! great attention to detail. I wish I could build engines like that good.

WHY is there a jubilee clip on the oil pick up pipe?

Little off subject maybe but quality of parts supplied these days. For instance, brand new Beetle sloping headlight seals been on for a year and most of that under a house and they have cracked on the outside edge already.

I have no trust in any tradie in Brissy due to the shit jobs I've come across later on.

Grandma's Corolla we bought from her had been regularly serviced and maintained by her 'trusted' local garage. She had to give me $1200 to buy the parts required to get it thru the roadworthy cert for change of ownership. If the work had been done by a garage it would have cost the price of the car to fix it all.
Oh, and they tried to change the cam belt, maybe, but couldn't get the crank pulley off so when putting the camcover back on instead of pay $20 for a new gasket they used hardening gasket sealant under a rock hard rubber gasket. Hence the engine was covered in years of caked on oily crap.

Oh, I so could go on but WTF happened to the old days when a bad tradie was in the minority?

Yea Iam interested in the hose clamp on the pickup as well ?
How much did the original build cost this customer?

Hose clamp is the cheapo way of securing the oil pickup extension for the deep sump. Should be welded although a sealed hose clamp job when using the og strainer will suffice. This one though was quite loose, so much so I took video of it coming off without loosening the clamp. 😂

Original build cost......$10k 🙁

nice pics

Great quatity of work, must have trained with the best. i like the nut, australian standard is three threads past the nut.

The hose clamp is usually supplied in the extended sump kit, but I have never seen anyone actually use it before?
The engines I have seen built are always welded on.

and how much of that $10k was parts, and of what quality?

It just shows what a waste of space our education system is! (Tafe, Universities etc)

I miss being up at your joint matty working on volksies, But I definatly don't miss this kind of shit!One thing is for sure I've forgotten how may times I heard people say I've been to X,Y and Z shops my shits still all jacked up and now I've got no money to fix it properly?Do people ever go back and lay this kind of crap on the table and ask for an explination?I had bad service at a vetinary surgery recently went back saw the owner told him I'd park out front with a sign outlining my problems for as long as it took and that was over $200 and he saw the point I was making,for $15,000 Youll wish you never heard of me.

I think the most important thing missing here other than workmanship or quality is pride.
How can a business take pride in this type of work. Shame on you. How would you like it if someone did this to your kid or mum.
Good post Matt

vwo60 wrote:Great quatity of work, must have trained with the best. i like the nut, australian standard is three threads past the nut.

I was rebuilding the clutch in my car due to catastrophic failure, anyway I was after some specs for the clutch fork adjustment as I found a few discrepancy, with no 100% guaranteed specs I called the clutch kit manufacture.

me "hello, I have 1 of your clutch kits, can you give me the specs on the pivot ball adjustment, the specs wasn't supplied with the kit "

the guy " you shouldn't need to adjust it"

me " no but my adjustment was wrong and has contributed to the failure of the old clutch"

the guy ( moment of silence) "............ just bolt the clutch in!"

me "I am sorry I need the measurement of the pivot ball"

the guy " (mumble mumble) hang on...... I'll get the book........ its says for the end of the clutch fork needs to be 39mm from the front of the bell housing"

me "yes thats the end of the clutch fork, I need the pivot ball measurement"

the guy " yeah its 39mm"

me "no, thats not the same as the pivot ball measurement"

the guy " yes it is"

me "no it suppose to be 100 and something"

the guy " oh that ones, nope doesn't say in the book, just set it what ever works....the 39mm "

me " I can't use that measurement, I can't get the bell housing off even with a 1 foot beaker bar, I must use the pivot ball measurement"

the guy " just adjust it to the 39mm on the fork end"

me" but I can't, the bell housing wont come off, the bolts will break if I try any harder..... are you sure it doesn't state this messuremnt?"

the guy "no just that one"

me " ok no probs, thanks.... cya"

Useless!, so i ended using the specs from exedy's website which proved to be the correct 1.




I mean seriously :/ the manufacture which is here in Oz doesn't even supply installation instructions or specs nor support for their product. I must say its and excellent clutch 🤓 but no support whats so ever.🤪

There was some else in this circus of ringing around trying to get info who suggested that i should reuse my flywheel bolts thats are TTY and also that even if there were too sort, 1.5 threads is all you need to hold the bolt at full strength 🤪

Now, where were we.......

mmmm, a nice 2275. Price breakdown I don't know as I've not seen any paperwork. Scat crank, cam and rods, VW 043 heads, Mahle p & b kit, Empi case, clutch & manifold & linkage kit.

Now remember the last pic of the head nut with all of 2 threads engaged, that was 3/4 side, so here is the other head, 1/2 side, and just so it wasn't left out, it also got the same treatment.




Obviously 1 or 2 threads isn't enough thread to hold on the head, so #3 cylinder had the stud fail which cause this massive blow-by




I forgot one other shop (#4 for this engine and it's only 5000km old), after the fire the car was towed to a VW repair shop where it sat for a month. The shop was asked to take care of the fire extinguisher powder that covered the engine as it's extremely corrosive and the owner was worried about his expensive engine. Well they removed the carbs and put water down the cylinder creating this mess once it sat for a few weeks.




Here is a pic of the failed lifters




and centre main bearing very scored with copper starting to show




Silicone should NOT be used on case 1/2's. It holds the cases apart which prevents the case providing the correct bearing crush



you can't see it in the pic, but the owner was told he needed a Hi-torque starter as the new engine was tight to turn over.....that would have been because the timing gears were so burred they bound even after being forced to run together for 5000km !!!!!!!!!

so what the hell is is even usable after all this? pretty much nothing? conrods maybe?

I'll answer that once everything is checked properly.

More than the last job of similar fate.......but that's another story

Man I'd take $10k outta that builders hide. This is shocking!!! But not unusual these days.

I heard very reliably that a body shop that does high end vehicles couldn't be bothered to weld up the trim holes in a decklid but said that a bit of filler would be perfectly OK. Wow, so it may look great for a while but after a few years at best you won't be so pleased with your expensive paint job 🙅

Friend is having a house built and the builder dug the footings in the wrong place and now has to get new building permission cos the drawings given to the customer weren't the ones submitted to the council. Awesome!!!

sad world we life in now 👎

Vlad, you should watch Holmes Inspection on Foxtel 119. Now that's an eye opener 🤪

Most of these people that hang a shingle outside there shop have never seen inside a Tafe, $100 a hour to get a great job done like this, to do that job properly the average vw person cannot afford the time required to build a engine properly, i only farm out things like paint and panel and that's another story, you only have to look at the welding that comes out of some places, I just looked a super bug a you person bought with a road worthy, they had welded up the frame head and passed it, absolute rubbish. looked like they forgot to turn the gas on.

vwo60 wrote:Most of these people that hang a shingle outside there shop have never seen inside a Tafe, $100 a hour to get a great job done like this, to do that job properly the average vw person cannot afford the time required to build a engine properly, i only farm out things like paint and panel and that's another story, you only have to look at the welding that comes out of some places, I just looked a super bug a you person bought with a road worthy, they had welded up the frame head and passed it, absolute rubbish. looked like they forgot to turn the gas on.

I've not seen inside a TAFE but then I did turning and fitting at school. Even many TAFE qualified tradies are shithouse. I've worked with many and can say I've come across less than 5% of them that I'd trust to do a proper job. QLD tradies are some of the worst I've seen in Oz and being an engineer I've worked with NSW and Vic tradie to compare against.
Sad state of affairs really 🙁

psimitar wrote:Vlad, you should watch Holmes Inspection on Foxtel 119. Now that's an eye opener 🤪

lol I haven't really sat down and watched tv in like 3 years, besides watching sbs docos at the gym.

It just makes me angry when I flip though the channels to find nothing but pure diarrhea quality programing.

vlad01 wrote:

psimitar wrote:Vlad, you should watch Holmes Inspection on Foxtel 119. Now that's an eye opener 🤪

lol I haven't really sat down and watched tv in like 3 years, besides watching sbs docos at the gym.

It just makes me angry when I flip though the channels to find nothing but pure diarrhea quality programing.

That's why I only watch UK car shows (Top Gear, Fifth Gear, Wheeler Dealer etc) or old Sci-fi shows and I only watch them after recording so I can fuck the ads off.

Way too much diarrhea on TV these days. Well in Oz anyway :P

Sorry for a bit off subject Matt. Please continue with the strip down report.

That engine, even from my very limited mechanical knowledge is disgusting.
I have always believed that if you dont know how, then stay well enough away.
I'm sure there is a good percentage of rural or regional members on here that have little choice in doing it themselves when it comes to repairs. And sometimes you dont have much choice. I'm near Strathbogie Vic and at times I need to carry out some repairs myself. eg broken electrical connections. Recently I took Tweety to an auto electrician in Benalla 40 mins away for what turned out to be faulty regulator. When collecting the car he told me "whoever connected all those wires did a very amatuerish job.". It was me, when I installed the ea81 after the 1916 I connected the 5-6 wires with standard electrical connectors. Obviously it worked but looked 'unprofessional'.
So I pointed out that when a novice like me pulls out a VW engine, attaches an adapter plate to the ea81, installs it and gets it running all with limited mechanical experience "I did pretty good".

I certainly wasnt in the mood nor wanting to pay to trailer the trike around to mechanical workshops and auto electricians to do the conversion with high standard.

So there are cases whereby work done on parts of vehicles is done by owners that might not meet the quality of work from a qualified tradie. But these people of which I am one, can either leave bigger jobs ie engine rebuilds to the experts or utilise great forums like this one to guide them through it, the latter I did with the ea81 install.

So there is nil excuses for workmanship of the standards we see in this thread. NIL!

PSIMITAR, Sorry to take you to task but i could not disagree with you more, it has nothing to do with TAFE, it is the individual and the work place were you do your time, i did my trade as a fitter machinist in Queensland and went to a TAFE in Brisbane, it did not influence me very much other that some technicial issues, i had a aprentice master that looked after the aprentice's training on the job, since then i have traveled around Australia doing a large varity of work, i am currently a senior mechanicial technician working off shore over sea's, the equipment that i work on makes working on a vw engine look like childs play, high speed rotating equipment like gas turbine generators and rotory screw gas compressors, alignments on a machine that weigh 40 tonnes that have a tolerence finer that a vw main bearing clearence, you cannot generalise, i have also worked with some very average engineers over the years, both electricial and mechanicial, it is very hard to get good trade's people any were in the world, there is a great shortage of good quality trades people because have a trade has been devalued and replaced with the idea it is better to have a degree, not so the case here, i earn three time more that a engineer and work half the year.

Was this really done by a vw shop there no way people would let work out like this..

vwo60 wrote:PSIMITAR, Sorry to take you to task but i could not disagree with you more, it has nothing to do with TAFE, it is the individual and the work place were you do your time, i did my trade as a fitter machinist in Queensland and went to a TAFE in Brisbane, it did not influence me very much other that some technicial issues, i had a aprentice master that looked after the aprentice's training on the job, since then i have traveled around Australia doing a large varity of work, i am currently a senior mechanicial technician working off shore over sea's, the equipment that i work on makes working on a vw engine look like childs play, high speed rotating equipment like gas turbine generators and rotory screw gas compressors, alignments on a machine that weigh 40 tonnes that have a tolerence finer that a vw main bearing clearence, you cannot generalise, i have also worked with some very average engineers over the years, both electricial and mechanicial, it is very hard to get good trade's people any were in the world, there is a great shortage of good quality trades people because have a trade has been devalued and replaced with the idea it is better to have a degree, not so the case here, i earn three time more that a engineer and work half the year.

I'm just saying in my experience I find most tradie's do substandard work but I also know a good few engineers that aren't very good either.
Never take it too heart if you are of the minority that does a good job. Be proud of that fact.
As for getting paid more than an engineer, good on ya but useless tradies that earn more than me does piss me off but that's down to engineers being under represented in Oz compared to tradie unions IMO.

Anyway, let's not get too off subject on Matt's thread even if he is highlighting a bad tradie's workmanship 🙂

psimitar wrote:

vwo60 wrote:PSIMITAR, Sorry to take you to task but i could not disagree with you more, it has nothing to do with TAFE, it is the individual and the work place were you do your time, i did my trade as a fitter machinist in Queensland and went to a TAFE in Brisbane, it did not influence me very much other that some technicial issues, i had a aprentice master that looked after the aprentice's training on the job, since then i have traveled around Australia doing a large varity of work, i am currently a senior mechanicial technician working off shore over sea's, the equipment that i work on makes working on a vw engine look like childs play, high speed rotating equipment like gas turbine generators and rotory screw gas compressors, alignments on a machine that weigh 40 tonnes that have a tolerence finer that a vw main bearing clearence, you cannot generalise, i have also worked with some very average engineers over the years, both electricial and mechanicial, it is very hard to get good trade's people any were in the world, there is a great shortage of good quality trades people because have a trade has been devalued and replaced with the idea it is better to have a degree, not so the case here, i earn three time more that a engineer and work half the year.

I'm just saying in my experience I find most tradie's do substandard work but I also know a good few engineers that aren't very good either.
Never take it too heart if you are of the minority that does a good job. Be proud of that fact.
As for getting paid more than an engineer, good on ya but useless tradies that earn more than me does piss me off but that's down to engineers being under represented in Oz compared to tradie unions IMO.

Anyway, let's not get too off subject on Matt's thread even if he is highlighting a bad tradie's workmanship 🙂

I totally agree with this.

Under supply of the trades and a over supply of engineers, no matter what you think of the union's if it was not for them you still would be down the mine at five years of age.

Cheers Vlad 😀

And I meant that engineers are poorly represented by unions compared to tradie's. Means engineers get screwed over by companies far easier than a tradie can as the engineer has little backing. Unions are good organisations to a point. 🙂

Matt, continue.

nils wrote:My brother got caught by one of these "pro" engine builders aswell. $6k for less than 5000km of engine life. The flywheel and gland nut was glued in because of a poor fit or quality. the flywheel all but cam off destroying the rear main seal, mating surfaces and rear bearing. after pulling the engine down we found alot of the same evidence you are posting above. not a simple mistake, but just hands down lack of concern for the finished product

might be the same guy?

nills im pretty sure it was the same guy who built your brothers engine, ive actually seen this engine too,before it was stripped

^^ Yep, you guessed it Steve. The shop is actually a German trained (so I was told) new(ish) Australian so rules out the TAFE complaints, I believe it to be a combination of work ethics, not knowing any better and to some extent prior training (or lack of it)that creates this sort of work. The shop guilty of the build pictured has since contacted me for input on a different project and he introduced himself as a VW and Porsche engineer capable of/specialising in, any air cooled engine machining and assembly work.....OH MY GOLLY GOSH....your kidding right?????????????????

My Volkswagen career has been born from the continual lack of quality available in the mainstream workshop environment, but I digress.

After re reading this thread, there a a million side comments I'd like to make, but it's really about showing not only the bad professional repairs that are out there, but more-so to highlight what you need to look for, there are a million parts that need to work together in harmony to make our little cars operate properly, and of course to share the experience.....

Found this the other day, the same engine had two out of five main bearing dowel pins 2mm too long. This means it is too long for the available holes in the case and the bearing, it pushed the bearing out of round and made contact with the crank thus adding to the resistance on the crank turning. You can see where the bearing has contacted the crankshaft. This would not have turned as it was built !!!





Here's the lovely cooler and fan installation. What you don't see is some of the details, the fan is held in place with 3 (sort of) screws, one of which was a self driller that was engaged into the sheet metal by the drilling part only, another was a bolt and a wing nut inside the car, not so bad.....mmmm, but they were a mis match of threads so 1/8 of a turn or less actually, and it was off, the last of the three mounts was a heavy gauge fencing wire hooked onto the hactory heaterduct mounting tab.




And of course to round out the no no's in this post, push lock hose fittings with hose clamps, the problem here is the sharp fitting cuts the hose.

His guy should be named. I mean whats the purpose of this thread . I can clearly see the dodgy workmanship but if I take my hard earned to a "reputable builder" as a newbie to VW's how do I know what Im going to get.
These crooks need to be weeded out. Lack of experience or interest in doing a good job is no excuse for charging top dollars, this is fraud.

due to the forums policy there will be no naming and shaming, any posts doing so will be removed.
if you really want to know pm him direct.

Oh Lawdy!
I put my Briggs and Stratton together sweeter than that!

P.S - Hey Matt, doesn't it say something when, despite all the odds stacked against it, that poor motor still ran for 5000kms!!

Notchbacktastic wrote:doesn't it say something when, despite all the odds stacked against it, that poor motor still ran for 5000kms!!

Absolutely, and it was essentially the carbs that made it catch fire which is what stopped it. (see 1st pic)

It's a shame current legalities stop people from shaming poor companies and workmanship. I mean I know it's a fine line to tread on even the complainant being honest about things but there are SOOOOO many dodgy people out there these days asking top dollar for poor workmanship.

Gone are the days when a bad penny was few and far between. Now it's flipped the other way and trying to find a good penny is a needle in a haystack. Sad state of affairs 🙁

You are unfortunately spot-on, psimitar. I now tend to expect the worst when something needs to be done 'outside'.

When I made the wheels for No.8 Beetle, the rims had to be spun, and after convincing myself that they would get them wrong, I was pleasantly surprised get exactly what was ordered.👍

This is a really depressing thread. But on the positive side at least this poor motor has found your workshop Matty! Your patience and commitment is astounding.

HappyDaze wrote:You are unfortunately spot-on, psimitar. I now tend to expect the worst when something needs to be done 'outside'.

When I made the wheels for No.8 Beetle, the rims had to be spun, and after convincing myself that they would get them wrong, I was pleasantly surprised get exactly what was ordered.👍

I try to farm anything outside as little as possible. If i can find a way I will.

I wanted a 120degree 1.5m bend in 2 sheets of 0.9 steel and places wanted $15-20 per bend 🤪 not bad for 10 mins work 😂

psimitar wrote:I wanted a 120degree 1.5m bend in 2 sheets of 0.9 steel and places wanted $15-20 per bend 🤪 not bad for 10 mins work 😂

dunno, what your thought proccess here is mate. depending on the specs or your bends such as bend radius and tolerance of the finished product this price is very reasonable. the fellow would take more than 10mins to set up the bender, depending on the size of your sheet and weather is needs to be cut first 120' can be a pain.
The guy is in essence probaly changing $80-90 an hour, which is pretty standard chop now days. Minus from that plant and workshop fees and the fact it has taken him away from a larger job the pays better and is a more steady income, i don't think he is wronging you.

what do you charge an hour?

Tend to agree with nils. By the time you set up the press-brake with the correct tooling, explain to the operator what is needed, do all the paperwork, etc., that's probably about right.

UNLESS THEY GET IT WRONG!!!!!......Then it is a rip-off.

psimitar wrote:It's a shame current legalities stop people from shaming poor companies and workmanship. I mean I know it's a fine line to tread on even the complainant being honest about things but there are SOOOOO many dodgy people out there these days asking top dollar for poor workmanship.

Gone are the days when a bad penny was few and far between. Now it's flipped the other way and trying to find a good penny is a needle in a haystack. Sad state of affairs 🙁

thats how it is these days. Thats why I prod and prod when asking questions or for something to be done, Its my way to sus out someone's capability to do the job right. if they can't answer me straight I walk away and look else where.

That is exactly correct about the cost of labour, just have to spend the time to do a small job like that and still charge the hourly rate to make it worth while to do it. the work that i farm out are to people that i know will meet the standard that i require, i have known all of them for years.

vwo60 wrote:That is exactly correct about the cost of labour, just have to spend the time to do a small job like that and still charge the hourly rate to make it worth while to do it. the work that i farm out are to people that i know will meet the standard that i require, i have known all of them for years.

Yea, labour is the biggest expense in Projects these days. Tis why projects cost so much in Oz.

Also, took me 5 years in my old town to find a mechanic I trusted and then due to life changes for him I can't trust him anymore. 🙁

The " problem" with the pricing is in no understanding of the process of todays sheetmetal technology...the days of guillotines and scribers is long gone...everything is done on CNC machines, which need to be programmed, set - up etc...all time spent transfers to hourly rate, which could range from $ 80.0 to $200.0...depending on the shop charge out rate, reputation and requested accuracy and time of delivery...Happy Daze knows exactly ...

Well today I came to the end of another classic example. a late model, air-cooled, VW powered machine equipped with a strong Empi turn-key engine with 20 000km on the clock from new. Stamped in the service book was all the servicing and repairs in it's short history, including it's predelivery and dyno tuning receipts.

This was my first real win with HPMX carbs so some people might be interested.

In the past I've only seen casting flaws with these carbs but these checked out ok so I was keen to see if I could get the engine to a satisfactory tune as it was obvious from the get go that it was running like sh1t due to linkage issues and whatever else that may be hiding within.

The repair goes like this....just quickly as I'm heading to the Dub Bunker for friday night celebs

Adj valves
replace/repair bodgy cable tie mount condensor
replace burnt points (remove dissy, lube the dry felt and advance mech., fit missing cable clamp to through body fitting)
repair carb linkage arms so the hardware can be tightened without the shafts binding
check float levels and jetting og set-up 45.135.F11.200 on 28 vents (set up by VW tuning "specialist" ) 😂😂😂
drop in a set of 60 idles
issues with progression and tuning persist on one carb, ends up fitted from new incorrect top gasket blocking idle air passages, also repair rquired to incorrectly modified air filter bottom plate modded to let water out!!! All it did was let dirt in!!!
jetting ended up 50.120.F7.200 ignition miss persisted
points burnt already so further checks into the ignition
coil ends up being a resistor type and rotor had zero resistance with wire zero resistance, rectified that and YEE-HA

Sounds easy, some 20 hours, each jet change or tune adjustment required lifting off the body, full test drive up to 40 minutes each to replicate many driving situations but a perfect result and a happy customer that had proof of some of the specialty VW tuning shops where this machine had been..... 🙁

Nice to have a happy ending

cb john wrote:The " problem" with the pricing is in no understanding of the process of todays sheetmetal technology...the days of guillotines and scribers is long gone...everything is done on CNC machines, which need to be programmed, set - up etc...all time spent transfers to hourly rate, which could range from $ 80.0 to $200.0...depending on the shop charge out rate, reputation and requested accuracy and time of delivery...Happy Daze knows exactly ...

CNC should be cheaper than manual cos all you have to do is zero the machine and press go. I should know as I've done this in a past job. Programming a CNC lathe or miller isn't so hard either as this is done on a 3D CAD programme that create the batch file for the CNC machine.

Obviously there is money involved in the CAD but for actually setting simple CNC procedures it should be no more if not less than manual machining.

CNC costs more due to the outlay for the machinery. They make the programming out to be a black art but it's not really.

Very simplistic description...

cb john wrote:Very simplistic description...

Well it's not rocket science and people should be made aware that a lot of jobs seen as hard are actually quite straight forward 🙂

Nice job with the HPMX's.. I've had similar issues with these carbs.

Nothing from EMPI works out if the box.

I found that the factory jets and etubes didn't remotely measure up to what was actually stamped on them.

Where are you buying your jet stock from Matty? I've bought vents and jets from aircooled.net with good success.

psimitar wrote:

cb john wrote:Very simplistic description...

Well it's not rocket science and people should be made aware that a lot of jobs seen as hard are actually quite straight forward 🙂

Well, hop in and have a go yourself. Sounds like you have the know-how.......all you need is a couple of million bucks [or a bank that will lend it, provided that you hand over your first-born, your house, and all you own if things go wrong]. Jump on the band wagon, and make a fortune.🤪

IWL_86 wrote:Nice job with the HPMX's.. I've had similar issues with these carbs.

Nothing from EMPI works out if the box.

I found that the factory jets and etubes didn't remotely measure up to what was actually stamped on them.

Where are you buying your jet stock from Matty? I've bought vents and jets from aircooled.net with good success.

Thanks Zac. the HPMX's came up a treat I have to admit. Your right about the og jets though these were rejetted by a prominant VW specialist dyno tuner so they tended to be true to size, just way off the mark 😂 Another VW supplier that sells heaps of HP stuff (yes he is even on here folks) gave me advice of setting them up richer than a normal IDF....funny these ended up leaner to a similar IDF install.

Note to self: take all advice with a grain of salt.....(what I normally do but trying to spread the joy on this thread....Beware of even the fastest talkers 😂)

I get my supply from Alfa 1750 on ebay. He sells good jets at the best prices I've ever found. Some I've bought from US VW shops have also been crap, some don't even fit the jet holders !!!

HappyDaze wrote:

psimitar wrote:

cb john wrote:Very simplistic description...

Well it's not rocket science and people should be made aware that a lot of jobs seen as hard are actually quite straight forward 🙂

Well, hop in and have a go yourself. Sounds like you have the know-how.......all you need is a couple of million bucks [or a bank that will lend it, provided that you hand over your first-born, your house, and all you own if things go wrong]. Jump on the band wagon, and make a fortune.🤪

Sounds like a licence to print money......we digress chaps. 🙂

You cannot simplify anything, it all depends on the experence the individual has, making change's without understanding what the implication's of that change's are, you see it all the time, you also have to know how it works to solve any problem's and to make positive improvements.

Who or what are you directing that above comment to Shayne? HPMX's, sheetmetal shops, workmanship etc etc????????

I wish I could invent a thread cleaning app!!

I'm sure you could Zac. 🙂

Sorry to help get off-track Matt, but as you would know, some people believe in Santa Clause.

Now, back on topic......DO NOT fit after-market brake drums to your Beetle, and expect them to be as strong as the originals.🙅

HappyDaze wrote:........, some people believe in Santa Clause.

Now, back on topic......DO NOT fit after-market brake drums to your Beetle, and expect them to be as strong as the originals.🙅

👍👍👍 On all accounts, esp. re. the brake drums.

Note to self: take all advice with a grain of salt.....(what I normally do but trying to spread the joy on this thread....Beware of even the fastest talkers )
I agree except for "Beware of the fastest talkers" They are usually the worst! We are lucky on here to have some very expeirienced dudes and we all should listen and learn from them! thanx matt and the informed few!

whats up Mat, read my the post again, it certainly is not aimed at you, just the stupid mods you see every day that people do because it is popular and trendy with out any engineering basis for it.

"Beware of the fastest talkers" They are usually the worst!

That's what I meant

thanx matt and the informed few!

Chees Mac 🙂

vwo60 wrote:whats up Mat, read my the post again, it certainly is not aimed at you, just the stupid mods you see every day that people do because it is popular and trendy with out any engineering basis for it.

Nothing's up, just asking mate. That's all.

For sure. There are so many changes that people make it's surprising they keep running at all. That's where reliability and performance gets compromised, even working on the car gets difficult when things aren't done properly. Often the way a component is positioned it can effect all sorts of other things and that's where a knowledge of the whole system becomes necessary as you said.

Something simple like what size fuse or an improperly insulated wire can have far reaching ramifications.

I pride myself when I complete a job, whether big or small, if modifications blend into factory apearance.

Sorry Matt. I was just replying to something someone had said.

I can't help it if people don't wish to discuss things and take offence at an informed comment. I'm an electrical and electronics engineer so if anyone wants to throw something my way then my shoulders are broad enough to accept someones informed opinion 🙂

As for the HPMX carbs that's interesting to hear you got them working without too much effort. Heard quite a few horror stories on Samba and Volkszone plus a few here.

No apologies req'd Mike.
Maybe here we're so over regulated tradies have trouble making a profit.
I think it comes down to having your own network of people you can trust, but I can tell you it's not easy to maintain quality jobs without paying for it.

The Empi carbs ended up beautiful and seemed to make good power, but I'd still prefer Dells or Webers. Build quality being the main reason, things like flexible throttle shafts, loose mixture screws in the threads making adjustment very finicky and loose float pivot pin that IMO will prematurely wear as it vibrates in it's loose alloy mountings.

Yea, maybe the gov need to investigate further cos being in charge of projects I know how much H&S bullshit increases job costs. This is similar to insurance premiums to cover yourself even if the job done is of good standard. American suing mentality has infected the western world in the worst way.


As for those carbs, I'm glad you got them working but from what you just wrote they still don't sound like a good buy 🙅

This one is a classic.

This guy spent over $50 000 at a VW shop getting paint, trimming and mechanical repairs done. The engine was outsourced but installed by the same shop.

After 100 km but 18 months due to needing to recover financially, the engine misfired and when the shop was called they refused to help stating it could not be a warranty issue blah blah. I went to help and found a plug lead loose/off.
After a few miles (500 or so), they came for a service, tune and oil change etc upon my recommendations.
I found the distributer locked at 45* advance !!!!!

Here is a pic of the non operating vacuum canister and the advances mechanism springs wrapped around the advance weights....and appearing to have been that way for ages.

What about this one.

Another prominant shop repairing a leaky pushrod tube in your +$20 000 engine.

They forgot to fit the little washer that the stock seal sits on.

The seals were also the cheap shit ones that split.......

Now that looks like a hot rod motor!

^^ oooh yeah. VERY yum

I'm setting up the efi and doing a few repairs/mods. Like the dash 4 fuel line from tank to pump !!!🤪

the white car?

good to hear.......bring it to the sprints!

What on earth is that brass thing protruding from the pushrod tube? Is that there idea of stopping a leak? 🤪

that is the tube. its come through the seal.

I dunno what to say Matt.
Honestly, I'm just about gobsmacked.

I learnt to do my own stuff as much as I could 30 years ago coz I couldn't afford a carb rebuild once when I was 18, but I still needed to get to work with the thing somehow. Seems that may have been a wise decision.

PM sent about drums.........

Oh yeah.

Well done Matt, and thanks.

IWL_86 wrote:I wish I could invent a thread cleaning app!!

You can buy them, although I think it's spelled "TAP".😂

Well, I have had to dig up this old thread because yesterday I had a customer tell of an experience that I just can't get out of my head.
I know this type of post is thought of by some as being negative, but I think of it as if I can save someone the blatant rip off that some specialists think they can get away with it's a worthy post.

This guy is building up his first beetle project. He wanted to install new king pins with his newly purchased dropped spindles. He had the king pins and spindles so rang around a few workshops and the only ones local that said they could do it was a prominant VW shop that has large ads in the Australian VW magazine. He dropped of the parts and when he got the phone call that they were ready to pickup, I'm surprised he didn't have a heart attack there and then (lucky he's a bit younger than some of us)

You won't believe the cost this shop has tried to charge him for simply installing a set of king pins into a new pair of stub axles.
They said they had some trouble and needed to by some tooling, it took them all day......wait for it, but handed over a bill for $1100.00 !!!!!

How's that folks? Crikey, I think I'm under charging!!!!!

some people have no idea do they matt. you can put your prices up after i get my carbs back

matberry wrote:Well, I have had to dig up this old thread because yesterday I had a customer tell of an experience that I just can't get out of my head.
I know this type of post is thought of by some as being negative, but I think of it as if I can save someone the blatant rip off that some specialists think they can get away with it's a worthy post.

This guy is building up his first beetle project. He wanted to install new king pins with his newly purchased dropped spindles. He had the king pins and spindles so rang around a few workshops and the only ones local that said they could do it was a prominant VW shop that has large ads in the Australian VW magazine. He dropped of the parts and when he got the phone call that they were ready to pickup, I'm surprised he didn't have a heart attack there and then (lucky he's a bit younger than some of us)

You won't believe the cost this shop has tried to charge him for simply installing a set of king pins into a new pair of stub axles.
They said they had some trouble and needed to by some tooling, it took them all day......wait for it, but handed over a bill for $1100.00 !!!!!

How's that folks? Crikey, I think I'm under charging!!!!!

Wow! I'm guessing at that price the poor customer paid for the tooling as well! Shit that is not nice at all. I'm all for charging what the job takes (I'm a motorbike mechanic) but not for stocking the workshops tools and probably paying for their training too by the sounds of it...

matberry wrote:Well, I have had to dig up this old thread because yesterday I had a customer tell of an experience that I just can't get out of my head.
I know this type of post is thought of by some as being negative, but I think of it as if I can save someone the blatant rip off that some specialists think they can get away with it's a worthy post.

This guy is building up his first beetle project. He wanted to install new king pins with his newly purchased dropped spindles. He had the king pins and spindles so rang around a few workshops and the only ones local that said they could do it was a prominant VW shop that has large ads in the Australian VW magazine. He dropped of the parts and when he got the phone call that they were ready to pickup, I'm surprised he didn't have a heart attack there and then (lucky he's a bit younger than some of us)

You won't believe the cost this shop has tried to charge him for simply installing a set of king pins into a new pair of stub axles.
They said they had some trouble and needed to by some tooling, it took them all day......wait for it, but handed over a bill for $1100.00 !!!!!

How's that folks? Crikey, I think I'm under charging!!!!!

Custom Veedub or Das Resto Haus cos with you on the sunshine coast they're the only VW workshops I know.

Either way that is total BS!!! As a VW garage you should already possess the reamer needed to fit a KP kit properly and a 10 tonne press. All up about 2-3 hrs work tops.

Sounds just like Zupps of Aspley. Charged my mate $1700 for a basic fluid change on engine. gbox and diffs. $900 for 4.5hrs labour.

Gotta have your wits about you these days and plenty of 'legal' crooks out there nowadays and I ain't afraid to say 🙂

barls wrote:some people have no idea do they matt. you can put your prices up after i get my carbs back

What carbs?

matberry wrote:

barls wrote:some people have no idea do they matt. you can put your prices up after i get my carbs back

What carbs?

shit who did i give them to then.
got a set you can sell to me then.

barls wrote:

matberry wrote:

barls wrote:some people have no idea do they matt. you can put your prices up after i get my carbs back

What carbs?

shit who did i give them to then.
got a set you can sell to me then.

Ahhh, that Barls, or should I say, Ahhh, those carbs.....all good mate, the vents are on the way and should be here any day now, you'll be the first to know

they are almost another point in this conversation. but ill leave that for later

vduboy wrote:

matberry wrote:Well, I have had to dig up this old thread because yesterday I had a customer tell of an experience that I just can't get out of my head.
I know this type of post is thought of by some as being negative, but I think of it as if I can save someone the blatant rip off that some specialists think they can get away with it's a worthy post.

This guy is building up his first beetle project. He wanted to install new king pins with his newly purchased dropped spindles. He had the king pins and spindles so rang around a few workshops and the only ones local that said they could do it was a prominant VW shop that has large ads in the Australian VW magazine. He dropped of the parts and when he got the phone call that they were ready to pickup, I'm surprised he didn't have a heart attack there and then (lucky he's a bit younger than some of us)

You won't believe the cost this shop has tried to charge him for simply installing a set of king pins into a new pair of stub axles.
They said they had some trouble and needed to by some tooling, it took them all day......wait for it, but handed over a bill for $1100.00 !!!!!

How's that folks? Crikey, I think I'm under charging!!!!!

Wow! I'm guessing at that price the poor customer paid for the tooling as well! Shit that is not nice at all. I'm all for charging what the job takes (I'm a motorbike mechanic) but not for stocking the workshops tools and probably paying for their training too by the sounds of it...

I agree entirely with your statement, tooling and training is not part of the job, especially for a "specialist" VW shop, that got asked if they could do the job. Thing is I see the results of thier workmanship regularly and suspect the job is not only unreasonably expensive but also of poor quality.🤓

psimitar wrote:

matberry wrote:Well, I have had to dig up this old thread because yesterday I had a customer tell of an experience that I just can't get out of my head.
I know this type of post is thought of by some as being negative, but I think of it as if I can save someone the blatant rip off that some specialists think they can get away with it's a worthy post.

This guy is building up his first beetle project. He wanted to install new king pins with his newly purchased dropped spindles. He had the king pins and spindles so rang around a few workshops and the only ones local that said they could do it was a prominant VW shop that has large ads in the Australian VW magazine. He dropped of the parts and when he got the phone call that they were ready to pickup, I'm surprised he didn't have a heart attack there and then (lucky he's a bit younger than some of us)

You won't believe the cost this shop has tried to charge him for simply installing a set of king pins into a new pair of stub axles.
They said they had some trouble and needed to by some tooling, it took them all day......wait for it, but handed over a bill for $1100.00 !!!!!

How's that folks? Crikey, I think I'm under charging!!!!!

Custom Veedub or Das Resto Haus cos with you on the sunshine coast they're the only VW workshops I know.

Either way that is total BS!!! As a VW garage you should already possess the reamer needed to fit a KP kit properly and a 10 tonne press. All up about 2-3 hrs work tops.

Sounds just like Zupps of Aspley. Charged my mate $1700 for a basic fluid change on engine. gbox and diffs. $900 for 4.5hrs labour.

Gotta have your wits about you these days and plenty of 'legal' crooks out there nowadays and I ain't afraid to say 🙂

Neither of the shops you have mentioned are the subject of this blatant rip off. They are up here on the Sunshine Coast so I see issues with thier overpriced "repairs" all too often, almost weekly I'd suggest. How places like this stay in business is beyond me. The hourly rate I have been told is OVER $100/hr!

matberry wrote:

psimitar wrote:

matberry wrote:Well, I have had to dig up this old thread because yesterday I had a customer tell of an experience that I just can't get out of my head.
I know this type of post is thought of by some as being negative, but I think of it as if I can save someone the blatant rip off that some specialists think they can get away with it's a worthy post.

This guy is building up his first beetle project. He wanted to install new king pins with his newly purchased dropped spindles. He had the king pins and spindles so rang around a few workshops and the only ones local that said they could do it was a prominant VW shop that has large ads in the Australian VW magazine. He dropped of the parts and when he got the phone call that they were ready to pickup, I'm surprised he didn't have a heart attack there and then (lucky he's a bit younger than some of us)

You won't believe the cost this shop has tried to charge him for simply installing a set of king pins into a new pair of stub axles.
They said they had some trouble and needed to by some tooling, it took them all day......wait for it, but handed over a bill for $1100.00 !!!!!

How's that folks? Crikey, I think I'm under charging!!!!!

Custom Veedub or Das Resto Haus cos with you on the sunshine coast they're the only VW workshops I know.

Either way that is total BS!!! As a VW garage you should already possess the reamer needed to fit a KP kit properly and a 10 tonne press. All up about 2-3 hrs work tops.

Sounds just like Zupps of Aspley. Charged my mate $1700 for a basic fluid change on engine. gbox and diffs. $900 for 4.5hrs labour.

Gotta have your wits about you these days and plenty of 'legal' crooks out there nowadays and I ain't afraid to say 🙂

Neither of the shops you have mentioned are the subject of this blatant rip off. They are up here on the Sunshine Coast so I see issues with thier overpriced "repairs" all too often, almost weekly I'd suggest. How places like this stay in business is beyond me. The hourly rate I have been told is OVER $100/hr!

I thought you were the only VW specialist up sunshine. Will have to check yellow pages 🙂

I've had so many mates n family ripped off lately by mechanics , plumbers, sparkys. It's getting silly out there but glad there's guys like you still being decent out there. 🙂