Sunday morning a group of us met to have a play, and see the real world difference between a buggy, baja and a few 4wd's.

We tried 3 areas;
(1) the steep slippery hill,
(2) the easier but rutted hill,
(3) and an articulation circuit.

First up, the buggy.
(1) - no probs on the steep hill
(2) - no probs on the rutted hill
(3) - carried the wheels high on the articulation circuit but made it no probs

Then the baja;
(1) roosted up the steep hill
(2) made the rutted hill look very easy
(3) made the articulation track look even easier

The patrol was next;
(1) made the steep hill ok, although missed the course and went the wrong side of a tree on the first attempt
(2) made the rutted hill easy
(3) had a real struggle with the articulation circuit due to the long wheelbase. Impressive suspension travel but just too long. Did eventually make it though

Then the hilux;
(1) no chance of doing the steep hill, not even with a big run up
(2) tricked by the baja into trying the rutted hill at the same slow speed on the first attempt, and failed. Second run was faster and made it fine
(3) Hilux's aren't known for their axle travel, and consequently struggled. Had to go around part of the difficult articulation section

lastly, the freelander;
(1) had a good go at the steep track despite the street tyres, but couldn't make it.
(2) amazed us by making it up the rutted track despite very little ground clearance
(3) had a struggle on the articulation track. Little wheel travel and bad approach angle was a problem. Shorter wheelbase helped, but could not tackle the articulation circuit directly over the difficult section, had to slightly go around it like the hilux.

So other drivers for the day, did all that sound about right?

Just a question,
Despite the obvious body differences, the buggy and baja are the same, so should have had the same results???
Well, I suppose they have different motors which may have swayed the results??

Looked like fun though, where's the Kombi's??? We need mor Kombi's!!!

cool
its good to see some real tests done rather than the ones u read that make a product look good.

good work guys, fun and learning. good to see the toorak tractors can do it rough

Hehe god old bajas:thumb

buggys and bajas have awsome wheelbase over 4x4s

Quote: "The patrol was next;
(1) made the steep hill ok, although missed the course and went the wrong side of a tree on the first attempt

So other drivers for the day, did all that sound about right?"

-----------------------------------------------------

I went Left so I didn't run someone over, not only that the trees are very close on the right.
But to set the record straight, I did return and complete the circuit between the trees on the right.

A very good morning out, shame a few guys pulled out, but for those who came it was fun.
Thanks to Wes for the use of his backyard again.
Oh and Thanks for getting up early to meet us Wes.:P:P

no pajeros? no kombis?
i know we have taken a pajero up slopes like that and around very difficult terrain with no problem, and i have a great artical about the powers of kombis on steep hills.

Having owned a Pajero and a Kombi come to think of it. There is not a hope in Hell of you getting up the big hill.


But feel free to come and try.

Whoopss better check with Wes first.

Quote:

Originally posted by Andy Just a question, Despite the obvious body differences, the buggy and baja are the same, so should have had the same results??? Well, I suppose they have different motors which may have swayed the results?? Looked like fun though, where's the Kombi's??? We need mor Kombi's!!!

first of all, my prediction of what a kombi would do;

(1) no way in the world it would make it up the steep hill. Very few 4wd's make it, trust me it's more difficult than it looks.
(2) A kombi should make the rutted track with a bit of a run up
(3) A kombi would probably roll over on the articulation track.

Andy, the difference between the baja and buggy is about 14.5 inches.

Here's a couple of other cars that have previously tried;
A stock 76 two door range rover (3.5L V8);
(1) couldn't make the steep hill. low 2nd had the power but not enough speed, low 3rd had the speed but not the power
(2) made the rutted track easy
(3) made the articulation track ok, rangies have awesome wheel travel

A modified 76 two door rangie, 2 inch body lift, bigger tyres, more susp travel, stroked 4.3L V8
(1) had the HP to make the steep hill in low 3rd, spinning the wheels the whole way
(2) made the rutted track easy
(3) made the articulation track and even kept the wheels on the ground, awesome to watch.

Next time you guys should time it. That would be cool

Sounds like fun guys, I wish I coulda been there with my old 2L FI kombi!

HEY COL, LET ME KNOW WHEN YOUR COMING, I HAVEN'T TOWED ANYONE FOR A WHILE!!!!

Not since the last Manx Club run when I towed a Kombi.....

I probably wouldn't need towing, more winching to get it back on its wheels!!

Unfortunately, it died a few years ago, and I try to look after the current one a bit better. :thumb

Wes,
Even though I am a VW fan, and maybe showing my complete lack of 4wd experience here, but wouldn’t any half decent 4WD with similar mods to what you and Brad have done would come up at least on par? Particularly with diff locks etc??

As for the Kombi, firstly you forget the Kombi driver will be much happier, and have a bigger smile, and a dazed look in there eye’s.
On the course, (1), (2), & (3), with 8 willing passengers their unstoppable!!!

On a serious note, I don’t think tipping over on 3 would be an issue in a Kombi?? Not much weight above the top of the motor/GB as in a Beetle.

I must say though I am truly impressed with the ease your Baja completes the course.
Andy
:thumb

don't forgrt that bajas & buggies are way cooler then 4WDs too!!

I suppose similar mods was a bad choice of words, I mainly meant a lot of effort spend modifying. As for the money spent, it’s definitely easier to spend a fortune on 4WD’s and I know a number of people who have spent more on a motor/trans than I have doing up Andy (and I spent WAY too much on that), but I’m sure you could do budget mods if you wanted to.
As for the diff locks, VW have a definite advantage here, you and Brad would be stuck if any ONE wheel off the ground meant no more traction as it does in a 4WD. A case where 2WD will do better than 4WD.

Must remember to keep Andy off those steep inclines then. As for the night nav run Andy made it to the finish just fine.

VW’s just ruuullle…..

Andy
:thumb

Another place a good 4WD will do well is in sloppy mud, because the 4WD helps them steer better.

The range rovers have center diff locks standard, so they need to lift a front and rear to run into problems. The freelander had traction control that should also act like LSD's but didn't appear to be doing a hell of a lot.

The place where VW's will do better than 4wd's is stockton sand dunes. The power to weight ratio and light weight makes them excellent dune climbers.

hey wes. wot about bajas and buggies with stock style motors. would they succeed on ya course? stock like 1600tp. after all a buggy is only 510kg. i know where i was in gosford i used to give my buggy heaps up this rock trail that is closed to all bar feet. although i havent made it to the top for fear of tipping, i did keep trying.

A 1600tp would do all the tracks fine. My friend took his swingalxe Baja with all terrain tyres and a crappy 1600TP up the real steep hill. It just takes a little more commitment as he had to keep it flat the whole way, backing off would've had him drop out of his powerband and lose his speed quickly.

I have the luxury of having too much HP and being able to backoff completely, then tromp it again and have it respond instantly. Ah, sweet EFI.

And if you think any 4WD would make it up the steep hill if the driver was crazy enough, you'd be wrong. Brad tried it in his hilux and failed, and he had some serious momentum.

Yes I must say the Hilux did SUX ... Now if only my Buggy could tow a car trailer and carry 1000kg in teh back I would have no need for such a vehicle....

Brad, that's why you need a kombi

On the topic of lockers, I don't believe that a manx needs one. Sure it would be nice, but not necessary, because a manx is so much heavier at the rear than the front that it just lifts a front wheel and keeps both rears planted. :thumb No, I've never owned one, but I did see them in action in the hills behind the beach, and I was paying close attention.

The buggy below wasn't going fast, and demonstrates quite nicely what I'm saying. Sorry about the picture quality, it was quite dark at the time and I've had to manipulate the image to lighten it up.