I read in a Newspaper financial section that Volkswagen will be Terminating the NEW Beetle in 2 years . Sales of the New Beetle are dropping rapidly all over the world.
It will be interesting to see how long the Production of New Beetle Cabriolets last.

Liquid Cooled VWs do NOT have Water in their cooling System.. if You don't believe Me.... have a taste.... LIQUID COOLED not Water Cooled...

i'm not surprised. the original sold so well because it was basic reliable transport that was above all very very cheap.

the new beetle is very very expensive, and the only thing in common with the old one is the cutsie factor, and you can only sell just so many cutsie cars. very limited market.

theyre water cooled as in water + coolant, same as every other modern car on the road. dont drink it, glycol is poinsionous

Yes it is poisonous.
In the 80's there was a big stink because French winerys used to put a bit in their wine.
Apparently it was an acceptable practice until the "Bit" became too much much and people got V sick.

Funny the stuff you remember

Yes,
I had a Renault R10 many years ago & You had to keep Glycol in the Radiator.
Rear Engine - alloy head - tyres were Michelin 135 x 15" - I had My rims widened to fit 165 x 15".... tyres... can You imagine having wide tyres with that size tyre.....
If You are concerned about Glycol.... have a look at Your Shampoo ingredients....
Only One problem... It will stop Your Hair & head from rusting and corroding, but doesn't stop Your head from over heating.... thats from My Experience anyway.... Maybe Castrol Coolant is the answer.... I wonder how much You use to wash Your Head...

This rumor is quite simply wrong. In the US, the NB outsells the Golf hatch by nearly two-to-one. And VW are not going to kill off the Golf, now are they?

According to a VW gmbh exec (I'll post the URL when I find it, nb.org is down right now), the current end date for the Golf IV based NB is 2010. Yes, you read that correctly. They'll make a decision by 2008 if the NB will skip Golf V platform and be renewed or killed off. That's plenty of time.

The NB is a "hero" car (a car industry term for fashion-orientated vehicles, like the NB, Mini, M-series BMWs, the Commode SS and XR series Fords). Although people might come in looking at the hero car, they drive out with another car, hopefully of the same brand as the hero car.

NB's sell about 100,000 per year at the moment and are profitable in their own right. Audi make 10,000 TT's (all forms) and are profitable. Volume alone is not an indicator of if they'll continue making it. Otherwise the old Beetle would have been killed in the mid-90's.

Lastly, in real terms, the NB 1.6 and the equivalent bottom end Beetle of the day are sold for roughly the same wage-weeks-to-own against the average wage. The NB 1.6 is a far better car, has more features (like standard aircon, remote central locking, CD player with six speakers, ABS, power steering, much better active and passive crash protection, equivalent or better fuel economy for a car that weighs nearly 400 kg more, etc). Therefore, I refute your claims that the NB's are overpriced. They are actually much better value than the original Beetle.

Andrew

Maybe one of the old timers here can fill us in (for I wasn't born yet in the heyday of the Beetle), but I had the distinct impression VW was NEVER in the $13,990 drive away price bracket. Never was, never wanted to be - they always thought themselves as a premium European product and traded on that.

The figures I have are for 1971 (all figures). According to the Holden web site (use Google), the Holden HQ Premier cost $2394 new in 1971, which is roughly equivalent to the Holden Commode Acclaim, as the Premier wasn't a bottom scraper car. The Acclaim is second from the bottom of the range, so I think this is a valid choice. The Acclaim is $35k at the dealers, $37k RRP. To prevent confusion, the Holden's pricing is not relevant to the rest of the discussion, I just give it as a comparitive example as most people know roughly what a Commodore is worth.

The 1500 was slightly less expensive than it at $2059 according to this link:

http://members.netro.com.au/~vwcc/guests.htm

Using the same ratio, an old 1500 would cost about $30k now, and the NB 1.6 doesn't - it's $29,700 RRP and can be found at most dealers at around $26k.

In 1971, the average male wage was $4,352 per year, meaning you'd own a Beetle 1500 in about 24.72 weeks assuming you paid no tax and could splurge a complete salary on a car. In August 2002 using ABS figures, the same average wage is $919 per week. Munging, this means you can own a NB 1.6 in approximately 28.29 weeks, meaning the Beetle - at best - is only 12.7% less expensive to buy in real terms, making the real adjusted value of a new Beetle 1500 if sold today somewhere around $22,720.

Due to wage restraint, J-curves, CPI and non-CPI money-for-jam figures and the chicken I sacrificed and the spread of the tea leaves, the real purchase parity figure lies somewhere between $22,720 and $30,000, and the NB 1.6 lies in that range. Therefore, NB's are not a rip off => QED. If you look at the VW range in 1971, it included the 1500 (entry level VW and entry level Beetle), Super Beetle, Type 3's, KG, Buses. Translating out, the Beetle 1500 is like a bottom end Polo, which you can have for $19,990 drive away at the moment, even cheaper than the 1500 was in real terms. And the bottom end Polo has more interior room and more gadgets than a 1500. Modern VW's are very good value for money.

VW has never been the pauper's choice when buying new.

Yours in Lies, damned lies and statistics,
Andrew


[Edited on 20-12-2002 by vanderaj]

Juat to support Andrew:

Yeah the NB will be made for sure until 2008 and then reviewed... I know this as gospel truth from a VW employee who is in the position to know.





[Edited on 20-12-2002 by Ghia]

Andrew you would have those facts and figures safely saved somewhere as this topic on pricing seems to pop its head every few months!!

if the prices are proportionally similar then vw must have a major price perception problem. Any one you talk to about it thinks that all those hero cars are overpriced and the pt cruiser is underpowered.

Andrew is right - VWs were never 'cheap' cars in Australia.

When VW's Melbourne factory was cranking them out - say 1961 to 1966 - there were two VW Beetle models to choose from. You had the 'Standard', or the 'Deluxe'. Now the Standard cost about 800 pounds and the Deluxe was around 980 pounds. (There was also the Deluxe Sunroof but we'll ignore that...)

Now which one do you think sold better?

Not the Standard. In spite of the Standard having the same body and mechanicals as the Deluxe, buyers in Australia preferred the extra features of the Deluxe - washers, chome trim, extra upholstery etc etc etc. They were prepared to pay more for the luxury Deluxe touches - which meant paying nearly a thousand pounds for a four-cylinder car. Pretty expensive in fact.

Volkswagens have NEVER been 'cheap' cars, in the way that Kias and Hyundais are.

Lee this is NOT good advice

Andrew has written an interesting article on the prices of cars - that's for sure.

Interestingly enough, I paid that exact same $2059 for my 1970 beetle (purchased 5 Jan 71) - I still have both the receipt and the car!

But Andrew glossed over the one item which changes the "cost to wages" ratio HUGELY - income tax!

I've done lots of comparisons too, and since I started working full time in 1969 and still have the payslips, I can tell you that a full-time base grade clerk in the Fed public service earned $2500pa in 1970 but paid only $125 of that in tax, where the same base grade clerk now earns a $27,000 and pays $5000 in tax (I'm a paymaster - trust me I have all the right figures). So the tax take has gone from 5% of salary to 18% of salary, leaving a smaller PROPORTION of spending money.

When you compare the net (tax paid) salaries with the cost of say a common 4 cylinder car of the day - modern cars HAVE increased in price. At the same time they now have airbags and radios and cup holders and and and, so the increase is not suprising.

But I wonder how many Hyundai Lantras and Honda Civics and Ford Lasers wil still be driving around in 32 years from now!

I'll leave the pricing wars to the experts!

On the Coolant, my brother was recommended to use STRAIGHT VW coolant in his Vanagons (he has a bus & single cab). He has done this for many years, and seems to have avoided the cooling & corrosion problems they can get if poorly maintained. (he has yet to re-build either motor, so the heads have not been off yet to inspect)
It's and expesive way to do it, and I'm not sure what's in the genuine VW coolant but it he swears by it.
Andy

I think the NB is over priced, based that they are built in Mexico while the Golf is built in Germany. Two vastly different economies, education standards & quality.
From the VW web :- 2.0L Golf SE $31,900, 2.0L NB Icon $36,500. Made in Mexico dearer than Germany? Of course, you will get 2 more air bags in the NB.

The location of manufacture is irrelevant these days, particularly as German VW's are > 95% built without human intervention by robots (whose salaries and education did you mean?). The other VW factories are not far behind and will probably exceed the German factory for automation when they are due for their refit for the A-5 platform in 2003.

Australia's Golf is assembled in South Africa from components made all over the world. The New Beetle is assembled in Mexico from components made all over the world. The Audi TT is assembled in Gyor, Hungary from components made all over the world. My NB's engine is made in Germany, for example, the CD is possibly Australian (Eurovox OEM)...

The New Beetle was designed in California by Americans (J. Mays and Freeman Thomas) to specs whcih fit the A-4 platform using standard off the shelf components (my cruise control arm and the Audi S3's cruise control arm are identical and operate exactly the same way).

Theoretically, the quality should be the same no matter where it is built. And so it is: all A-4 platform cars built between 1998 and 2001 have a free silent recall on faulty window regulators, which can destroy the glass or simply stop working. I've had one of mine replaced. All 1.8t engines to 2001 have a free silent recall on replacement MAF sensors. All 2000-2001 A-4 platform cars with ESP fitted worldwide have a recall notice on the ABS unit which can burst into flames.

Welcome to globalization and platform sharing, which VW does better than anyone else. I'm hoping you mean by saying that Mexican prices should be lower as VW pay less tax there. Dream on! One of the reasons VW moved their manufacturing from Ohio to Mexico for the North American market was that the cars coming out Ohio were truly atrociously built and were destroying VW's reputation for quality in the 80's and early 90's. The new plant in Mexico theoretically builds them to the same quality standards as their German plant, but because of the lower levels of automation right now, they can't hope to meet the precision of a robot. That may never be resolved for the A-4 platform'd NB, but the Golf V will be hardly touched by a human regardless of its build location.

Andrew

Sorry, but I'll still have a German built Golf over a Mexican built NB any day, unless a better deal is offered. I'll reserve the right to disagree with you as to whether Mexico's standard of living decrees it can charge more for a product that is basically the same product as one built in Germany. With the $4,500 I save, I can spend on :- Upgrade sound system, bigger wheels & tyres, sports exhaust, holiday in Germany or just leave in the bank.
Lets not forget that VW did not price the NB on what it owes them plus the usual profit margin....but what they thought they could get for it. At a time when they were selling 350-400 Golfs per month, they sold 50 NBs. They either got it horribly wrong, or they did exactly what they set out to do, get people into the show room with the cute Beetle, and once they realize they can't afford a Mexican built product, sell them the German one.
All this does not mean I dislike the NB or that I would never buy one, quite the contary. As I stated, I think the prices of the NB & Golf should be reversed.
I realize you own one, and hopefully you are satisfied, but you shouldn't be so defensive.
Of course all this is relevant to SA prices, and it may be different to those living in the eastern states, where cost of living is higher, and thus reflected in your salaries.
Certainly I must in future try to be less controversial, as it seems every time I give my opinion, someone writes half a page to tell me how wrong I am. Thanks, but I have a wife to do that!

[Edited on 26-12-2002 by Green T4]

hehhee. Don't worry, I'm just long winded. I don't think I can do short posts, particularly when I think people are wrong, even though they might be right or hold just as valid an opnion as my own. :-)

You are right - VW charge what the market can bear... My NB Turbo cost $46k on the road. The base NB cabrio with manual roof and manual gearbox will cost about $45k when it gets here, the Touareg Toorak Tractor will cost about $80k and the Phaeton (if ever sold here) will cost about $220k. I'm sure it doesn't cost that much to build any of these cars. All manufacturers do this. Even Hyundai do - Grandeur my ass.

But it's what you want in a car. I'll never own a Commodore, nor a Falcon, nor a station wagon, very unlikely to own a bus as they simply aren't attractive or functional to me. I like the NB, and I've owned a Golf, but I don't think I'll own a Golf again whilst there's a NB or NBC to own and be seen in. I like 'em, and I pay the sticker price. And when the new NB line is finally laid to rest in ten or so years time (maybe), I'll probably be paying out for a Lexus SC430, Passat or a TT or similar. Don't know yet, it's a long way off.

Minor correction for you: All Australian Golf IV's are sourced from South Africa. You can't get Australian ADR spec Golf's from the German factory, with I think the possible exception of the soon to be replaced Golf III cabrio (although the cabrio looks like a Golf IV, it's actually a Golf III). I know what you're saying, but you can't get a German made Golf. And I'd rather have a Mexican made NB than a South African made Golf right now. And it has nothing to do with where they are made for me.

Andrew

I actually agree with Andrew..and no am not biassed..But it now days it doesnt matter where the car is..what matter is the brand..
If u buy a McDonnalds in Aus or in the US they would taste the same (well in approx to being the same).
Having a NB made in Mexico as oppose as having a Golf made in Germany..it doesnt matter as both are manufactured under the VW banner, both would carry VW quality, VW would not be foolish enough to market a car knowing it doesnt reflect their quality standards.
Again another thing to remember NBs like any other retro car out there..are market to a sector of the car buying population.
Not all would fancy a retro car.

Ill just wait till all new VW's fall below half of thier new price tags in a couple of years and then get one. I think you could buy a Porche thats a few years old and still have the same running costs as a new VR6/V5/GTI and it wouldn't depreciate so fast. Sorry, thats just the way I feel and I have older Vw's and one that was mentioned above. I know Ill always have the older one's.

Hutcho

.

Hmmmm...ya know when you've had say, half a dozen beers and you say stuff that comes out not quite the way you mean it to?! Ive just re-read my post above what I wrote last night and I didnt mean to sound so anti-new-vw. As a matter of fact, I really dig most of the new VW's too it just saddens me how hard/expensive they are to own. If any of you out there has had thier VR6 serviced recently, you'll know what Im talking about. I could have bought a set of polished FUCHS for our Kombi with the money I just outlayed for a MINOR service on our VR6!

Hutcho..most certainly..when i had my Duke (a NB) serviced i was :o wow...for some little things.....$350! just oil change but then...thats VW on the service side..and luckily service is only twice every year
As my bug is my first new car..like i want the best for it.. thats why i put yea....hich octane fuel on it...optimas or Mobil's 8000 gasoline...
but certainly u r in the correct servicing..is expensive mainly cuz there arent many VW dealers here in Vic..dont know how the US scene is but i reckon in the US servicing done at a VW dealership would be cheaper..
But then...(sorry for blabing around hehe) dont know if servicing a new car implies that it be expensive... wondering whether the servicing cost would be around the same for a NB a new Mini or a PT Cruiser.

It would give me great pleasure to be able to agree that where a car is made is irrelevant. (Especially since I own a New Beetle.)

Unfortunately it is well document that this is far from being true.

Hence the fact that the Mercedes E Class continues to be made in Germany where it is a very big seller and is still somewhat of a bench mark in terms of build quality.

While the Mercedes M Class is made in the States where it is a very big seller and the build quality has become somewhat of a bench mark in terms of how bad build quality can be within one manufactures range.

Well , firstly , the Golf 4 is made in Germany . Only the first batch of Golf 4's came from South Africa . And as for the VR6 quote for a Service . I pay $80 for mine . I do it myself , use your 36mm gland nut on the oil filter to remove !

Bug-Racer,
$80 gets you two original plugs or even correct aftermarket ones or it gets you ONE original lead. I guess if you were only doing an oil change then $80 would do it $50 for filter- $30 for oil. Who do you get to stamp your service book? A cars price depreciates very sharply when it shows no service work.

ehh also..........i know for example for my bug..VW dealer they had to reset the computer settings... (as my bug indicated it needed service in the speedometer panel) eh for that reason as they do the reprogramming of the computer..i'll guess it would be wiser to take it to a VW dealership.....i cant risk it to take my bug anywhere else..simply cuz...is under warranty..and as pointed b4 if u have records that show that u had taken good care of ur vehicle (ie having the routinely service ) then it adds a bit more value

I no longer take my NB to the dealer that it was bought from, I now take it to a QUALIFIED VW mechanic that actually does work for the same dealer that I bought it from. My Mechanic does a fantactic job on my NB for a fraction of the cost from the dealer PLUS it gets the VW service stamp in the book! CAN'T BEAT THAT

When you are a VW technician who works for VW you don't bother stamping the log book . Anyway from what I have seen people pay more for a car if when it is sold it is sold with a mechanic who knows the car and what has been done on it . I could stamp my log books and just fill in all the dates and stuff . Anyway I buy a car for keeps . Whats the point of selling a car ? Unless you have heaps of money to constantly upgrade ? And $80 = $45 for the oil and $35 for spw and oil filter . And as far as I know if you don't service your car you still get warranty on items which are not directly related to servicing e.g. Window regulators

Quote:

Originally posted by Ghia Quote: I guess your Goof 4 is not under warrenty then? 'Cause that's where they've got you you don't get a VW service when it's due you warrenty is invalid Actually, this is totally incorrect. You only need to get it serviced at the appropriate intervals (ie follow the requirements in the manual) to keep your warranty. From the horse's mouth: http://www.accc.gov.au/pubs/publications/journals/consumer_express/oct_2002.htm#in It's illegal under the TPA in Australia to tie warranty to a specific dealer or to a specific brand of workshop as it's restraint of trade. The manufacturer or dealer cannot even suggest that you can't get your car serviced elsewhere. Toyota was fined for this very behavior about 10 years ago. I had my 15,000 km service done by Repco who did a top notch job. VW then did the follow up warranty work (six items, including replacing a rusted out bearing) immediately afterwards. At my 30,000 km service, VW did about three lots of minor warranty work on top of the regular service. As long as you keep good records of what was done, the manufacturer cannot just "void" your warranty, and they can't void the entire warranty. Also, one of the other posts suggests you need a VW VAG computer to reset the service interval. This is not so - you only need the ignition key, although you can use the computer as well. Both reset procedures are set out in the official Bentley manual. Andrew

Andrew: fair enough point taken about the warrenty.

Where I live you do have to go back to the dealership network.

And in fact I think your law is rather odd (although admirable). If you made something and offered a warrenty wouldn't you expect to be able to control that warrenty? I would.

How long are most car warrentys in Australia? Anyone?

Happy New Year



[Edited on 31-12-2002 by Ghia]