Hi there,

Over the last week, there has been some discussion about reviewing and simplifying our existing rules, as certain people seem to have difficulty complying with the current ones.

Please read this, make suggestions and vote on if you like it or not. If most people like it by April 1, 2006, we will put the final amended version up for an official vote.

reads well mate

That seems OK to me. If asked to, I'll agree to those terms.

Coolio

Sounds fair to us.

Marc & Kathy

Whilst I would have no problem with accepting the proposed wording, and I fully understand the ongoing frustration caused by moderating a forum like this, I think this new draft is a retrograde step.

The current rules (with which I also have no problem, and *attempt* to comply) have a number of specific provisions which are missing from the new draft and the atttempt to simplify the rules seems to have resulted in somewhat vague language which I suspect may lead to more problems than it solves. Specifically,

- I'm not sure what "post friendly and refrain from slagging people off" means

- equally I'm not sure what "more mature topics" are

- the wording "or about illegal things" is both simulataneously vague and overly-inclusiveness (I can't post about speeding? - probably not what you intended)

- the current rules specifically prohibit "Nudity, chain letters, pyramid schemes, and solicitations.." inter alia. If the intention is to replace the current "Board Rules" with the draft above, it is only a matter of time before someone claims that any one of these is permitted, by not being specifically prohibited.

- in attempting to simplify, there are other important provisions in the current rules which appear to be eliminated, such as fencing off the BB developers and administrators from improper postings by members; as has been shown on other forums, there needs to be adequate protection for those folk

- numerous other areas where the current Board Rules are clear and the proposed simplification just looks less effective or substitute a feel-good fuziness for specific provisions

I am not sure what would be gained by watering-down or dumbing-down the rules; those posters who currently disregard the existing rules will no doubt disregard the new set, but you may inadvertently weaken the admin. and moderators' position by simplification and vagueness. My gut feeling is that a combination of greater literal consistency of application of the rules and ruthlessness in that application may be needed, but I can't see that the proposed draft is going to achieve a better outcome than the current clear and more comprehensive rule set.

I've voted "don't like it", but my intent was to question whether it will address the current concerns rather than bag the drafting.

Regards,

I like the simplified idea....even if it makes it a bit subjective...
I think it keeps things friendly and open
thats my fitty sents.... minus the nasty rap lyrics of course
snigger

i do like the new one for its reader-friendlyness, but after reading modulus' post, maybe it would be necessary/wise to adda "for a more detalied description of this forums rules" button where those who are interested can investigate the more legally correct version of the rules

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So we are expected to think of every little thing in order for people to have it in black & white as to what they can/can't do?

There'll always be people who get around that and disrupt things anyway then say " but it doesn't say it in the rules'... I believe in simple things often being the best, so that's my two cents.

The aims of this rule change are simple: fewer, easier to remember rules makes it easier to comply with them. We're not trying to make this place into the Fourth Reich, and I know many are sick and tired of the bitching and moaning in Buying and Selling.

I think most of us want a (mostly) family-friendly, easy going atmosphere where people can get to know each other and become friends through a common passion for VWs, hook up for drives and events, and find a car or a part or two without grief.

Simpler rules should make this a bit easier. But being simpler, they have to be a bit more vague to allow us some leeway when someone comes on only to shit stir, annoy, spam or defame someone. There's usually only one or two troublemakers spoiling it for the other 4889 of us.

thanks,
Andrew

I couldn't agree more. What vanderj said is spot on. It should be a place where we can enjoy our common love for VWs. Not a place for for politics and slatting of other members who do not neccesarily agree with our point of view.
The simpified rules make alot of sense- but I do think that we need something more comprehensive to cover our butts at certain times.....
Just my 2 cents.

I'd be another on the "agree with Modulus" gravy train... it is the flawed people who ignore the current rules that are the nut of the problem, nothing to do with having flawed rules... anyone who understands basic English should be able to comprehend their meaning and live by them. It's like moving to a foreign country... one chooses to live there, then one is automatically electing to live by that countries federal laws...and if one flaunt the rules, one ends up facing a firing squad...plain and simple.. Same principle applies to a forum.

As has been said already, by simplifying the rules, you immediately give a big stick to the few trolls on here, who say "OOOHOHO BUT IIIII TAKE THIS TO MEAN [insert bullshit here]!... you didnt say I cant blah blah blah bullshit bullshit in the rules so you suck!"

In short... leave em as they are... if the other 98% of decent members on here can comprehend and adhere to the regs, then why should administration be bending to the few scumbags or pains in the ass who cant get it right?...if they break a specific rule continually, why not just boot there sorry ass for good, instead of trying to pussyfoot around them.... obviously they disagree with the rules that were set out before they signed up, so they have no place here.

if it aint broke... why bloody fix it?

Just my 10 bob worth...

Good point... I agree with that also.

hey.. look i liked the 'dumb it down' version, its fairly straight forward and even a 'less than fortunate' could figure it out and not get bogged down in the reading of it..
although it may be constude as 'politically correct' and 'open to interpretation' its still fairly nice and basic..
my 2 bob anyways,
i gave it a tick.. cheers



[ Edited on 17-3-2006 by h ]

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A vote for.
I doubt that I personally will have any difficulty complying with these rules..as there is always BA.
However, simple rules will always be open for broad interpretation.
So I like the idea of keeping the old ones as a more defined subset of rules to fall back on if 'hair splitting' must come into play, after all they have evolved out of experience.
Just look at how many bookshelves a lawyer needs.

Adults Only Area? Huh?
-Staggers.

understanding the need for simplier rules... when even the best of them can not abide by the exisiting! :duh

I agree with the simpler rules. The most important thing to remember is that at the end of the day the forum is made of the people that frequent it.

I hear the bit about simpler rules make it easier for them to be swayed by members and/ or mods. There is a pretty democratic process in what the mods do when it comes to mod's functions and processes on this forum. Remember there is a "Report" button in the top right hand corner of every post. It is the members that are bringing certain things to our attention and that is what we act on. So in actual fact it is more so the members running the forum. Mods and admin only operate on what the majority of members want/need.

Positive posts help the forum grow. Negative comments are certainly not favourable. The concensus based on what gets reported proves this.

In my own opinion, I suggest everyone makes their next twenty posts as positive as possible and those that do will see the difference in forum atmosphere and will continue to do so. Even if you are already doing it, go even further with the feeling good posts.

Ohmmmmmmmmmm. I must have my Chai tea now.

Hippy in a Helbus

Let's go Andrew, make the rules active. Then we can start to rid the forum of the shit on ths forum and make this forum back to talking about VW's, not non related crap that is taking up valuble band width.

Clean up time.

A while back we thrashed out a set of rules, each member put in a bit & I even recall giving you the proverbial pat on the back for the final draft Andrew.

Then the rules got bent slightly to create "bad attitude"
From memory the excuse was"people sailing to close to the rules". I still don't agree with that decision & don't go near it on principle.

Now this. A complete backflip.
And the reason; "......as certain people seem to have difficulty complying with current ones"

Under the current ones - the ones newbies agreed to before they wrote their first post -the ones existing members agreed to before they wrote their next post- shouldn't they be banned??
So now we are going change the rules to acommodate "certain people".
This is cowardice at best, corruption at worst.

So I'll ask a direct question; Who are you afraid to ban or which of your friends don't you want to ban??


Then there's this gem:

Bad attitude was double standards, this is something different.

But it makes the entire debate we had the first time a joke.

How can the administrator justify making his own arguements null & void??

[ Edited on 25-3-2006 by Spook ]

...and around it goes.

Hi everyone.

wow im only new to AVD and i think i might have broken the rules allready ,i posted on general chit chat ( guy wants to go to valla ) now am i just getting paranoid should i have posted that in the adult section even though it was only meant to be a light hearted dig at how hard it is being a guy and getting places . does that mean i might be voted off of AVD or am i just a paranoid new member . so far ive enjoyed my experience on here and look forward in reading other people points of views ( we are all different ) and dont allways aggree with other peoples views . i hope i havnt broken the rules and i do aggree there is a standard we should all try and stick to . now ive got that off my chest i just want to say id still love to go to valla and i hope i havnt offended anyone in any way shape or form .
regards bugbrained ( am i just being paranoid now let me know )