Last wekend on a run from Nth Richmond to Muswellbrook the std unleaded was "out of order" once again and rather than go to another servo, elected to fill with the ethanol stuff. Fuel useage seemed a bit high to the normal for the particular vehicle!

This weekend, a trip to Tamworth. You guessed it.... out of unleaded again but plenty of the other stuff. No traffic and a good run but couldn't get below an average of 10.9l/100km. Decided to try filling with reg. unleaded at Tamworth which was 3/4 tank so it watered the E10 down quite a bit. Same traffic conditions again and useage dropped to 8.8l/100km and averaged 9.4l/100 for the 400km trip with an average speed of 88km/hr.

Now!! With a bit of maths it isn't hard to work out that the increase in consumption is around 15% if we use the E10 blend rather than straight unleaded. The "experts" will tell us that it is a more environmentally friendly fuel but it has used a bit more unleaded PLUS the ethanol to add to the polution.

Anyone else had experience with this stuff regarding efficiency?

DH

Not game to use E10 in my `74 1600L. Am also concerned as to wheather an additive with unleaded is better or not. It`s a pain in the behind to have to remember to top up every time i fill the tank. I checked the Tech Talk pages here and some say do, others say not to worry. So i`ll just play it safe and top up.

I use reg. unleaded in the Type 3 without additives and as yet, haven't had any problems. The vehicle (See! Still no mention of the make for fear of being jumped on! ) I used above is rather modern with only 26,000km on it. The manufacturer even puts it's stamp of approval on the filler cover as to the use of E10. It may be about 2 or 3 cents cheaper than reg. unleaded but with the extra consumption, it would work out about the same or even more expensive than premium unleaded price.

DH

i use it all the time in all my cars with no complaints

i use it my falcon but it will be running on gas soon

I have gone off ethanol

I actually found i got BETTER economy and performance.

I stopped because the Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries
http://www.fcai.com.au/ethanol 
says the extra oxygenation of fuel is not good for steel lines and rubber hoses

Ethanol is rated at 94 Octane - so no good for my Mk4 Golf either. Min 95
VW doesnt recommend it for their cars.

Dear Barry,
Thank you for your enquiry,
For the latest model cars, ie the millenium versions, it is best to use a
98 octane fuel with no more than 10% ethanol. For your VW Golf, a 95 octane is suitable but you would need to confirm if the E10 is definitely 91 octane.
E10 would not be suitable for any of your vehicles, however to use this fuel would be your perogative. Volkswagen vehicles are designed to use certain octanes.
Ethanol blends are only new on the market and not a lot of research on the long term effects have been made yet for the Volkswagen brand. Please always stay with What is recommended for your particular vehicle. Please contact a Volkswagen trained Technician to seek some more advice with particular fuel blends.
http://www.volkswagen.com.au 
Will give you a more comprehensive list of Volkswagen service centres.
If you have any further queries, please don't hesitate to contact us.
Kind Regards,
Carmen Elder
Volkswagen Customer Service Representative

Caltex's replies to my questions

Barry,
Caltex E10 must meet the Australian Standard for regular Unleaded petrol, which has an Octane rating of 91 minimum, however, when you add 10%volume Ethanol to regular Unleaded petrol, the Octane of the mixture finishes up at between 94 - 95. Caltex Vortex has a guaranteed Octane rating of 95 minimum, so this is the one you should use. If you require a 98 Octane in the future, we do market Caltex Vortex 98 ( which is 98 Octane), but it is currently only available in Sydney and Brisbane areas.
As for suitability of use for E10, our information on VWs is that it is suitable for all VWs from 1986 onwards, unless the vehicle has a carburettor, and , of course, providing the vehicle does not require a minimum Octane fuel of 95 or more.
Bruce

I've only used it in My Lancer By Mistake

as i'd never seen it before...

I use 95 usually in My beetle...

I have used ULP 91 now & then...

only reason I use 95 is that ULP is between 89-91
usually below 91...
and 91 is recommended for beetles...

Lee

Nice to meet you for the first time Dallas
Found Chris & Jay OK...
Parcel delivered..
cheers
LEE

Hi
We use the Shell V-Power Racing witch is 5% Ethonol blend instead of the 10% of the E10. + its 100oct not the 94 of the E10.
We have found we are actually getting better K's using this then the old shell optimax.

Hi

I had a problem with my car and I'm not sure if it was E10 related or not.

The fuel tank rusted out in my daily 1303, so I fitted the tank out of the 1303 Im building as I already have a new tank for it.

The 1303 Im building had a foam filled tank as it was an ex club race car fitted with a 12A rotary from Group C touring car.

I filled my tank with E10, soon after when starting my car it would make a sound like it had lost compression on one cylinder or the heads were about to fall off, then after a few minutes of rough running it would settle down and run fine.

Then one day I started it up and it wouldn't clear, I found that a pushrod had fallen out of the rocker, so the only way that this can happen is if the valve sticks open.

I'm not sure if this is E10 related or not, maybe the foam reacted with E10, talking to Hans Klaack one day he told me of a similar experience with a VW powered trike, when the resin in the fibre glass tank had broken down.

I cured my problem by running some normal unleaded with some Nulon fuel system cleaner, I've never used E10 since.

Steve

Steve it was an ethonol problem.

Ethonol reacts to foam filled or fibre glass tanks.
you will see this warning in most marine places.
Unfortunatly they do not warn the public against its use at the pumps as yet. But they will soon learn as the growing number of cases filed against the fuel companies for the repairs of customers underfloor boat tanks.

We have been using 98 octane unleaded in our car for years. Before that we just used 91 octane and between the 2 types, our 68 beetle has never skipped a beat in the 191,000 kms we have driven. We do get better consumption using 98 though.

Yogie

Good to see various results and at least one of us admitting to using this fuel in a Falcon! I have just finished running an EF Falcon with 420,000km on it but most of that was on gas with petrol run at times to keep the injectors working. No further use for it now. The "S" now seems to have turned into a daily driver for the short trips locally.

The results I had was on a VE Commodore which does seem to use just a bit more fuel than the older VY with the 3.8l engine but this weekend it seemed to turn into a gas guzzler and the only difference was the fuel used which was 100% E10 as wife thought that the few cents cheaper was worth the try. The return journey on reg unleaded had it back to the usual consumption on a long run. I did ask the servo operator last night about the economy of the E10 and he said that most reports had it using more than straight unleaded. On short city driving there may not be a noticeable difference, depending on the traffic.

Will be interesting to see the results on the same trip in 2 weeks time again.

DH

I won't run it in the VW's period.

The wife runs it in her mazoodar now & then with no ill effect (YET), but, her fuel economy suffers. So she's not saving anything on cost.

I've found that my fuel consumption increased in my 97 Civic by about 2L/100kms. I did find that the engine did ping less though.

I used to use Bogas which contained about 10% ethanol years ago in a Magna...
had no problems and always used it...

the BOGAS bowsers always had a sticker
Do Not Use Ethanol in any fibreglass fuel tanks
or motor cycles..


I know many people used to have major problems when they used BOGAS fuel in their cars...
I have heard of people pouring Methyolated spirits down the throat of the carby to get their car going...??

I'm presuming these people didn't use BOGAS again??

Lee

In my ba ute i run standard unleaded it seems to get better milage and it definately towes better than using ethanol.
My race car i use BP Ultimate only as that is what tha car was dynoed on. Blue my dyno guy recommended i stick to the same fuel as he said the viscosity my change.
Okay so he,s the expert.
My wife runs standard unleaded in her car a Vectra goes okay.
My opinion, i wouldn,t drink beer with 10% water added so...

Cheers Col

I don't believe its a rip off

You are just getting what You pay for...

and its not really water... its a spirit..

BOgas had a bad name locally for many years where people reckoned their car didn't go very well, or even some wouldn't go at all...

and the story was then that the servo owner would top the tanks up with water.....

maybe there was a leak in the tanks??

I don't know... but all the Bogas servos in the neighbouring towns has now gone....
to Caltex...

The ethanol study done a few years ago stated that MPG
or litres per 100km would be worse with ethanol fuels..

so, the question is... Who actually uses it??

and what is it ?? 85 - 87 -89 - 90 ????

IF 20 people say they use it in their beetle I might try it....

LEE

I don't use E10 for this reason: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/7381392.stm 

that was a good reason NOT to use it..

I always thought that most of the ethanol in the US was from sugar that they couldn't sell... ???

but with all the starving people in the world
and the price of Food..

ethanol production should be halted.. IMHO..

Lee

I use it is my lesbaru and it makes no difference either way for city driving. Highway I always put a higher octane in = much better mileage.

Not sure how much water we are talking about but this might give some food for though....ethanol bonds more readily with water and therefore means a higher content of water than normal petrol. Ethanol or alcohol blends are used in making fuels such as ultimate, I believe that they are a different blend though. Fuel companies are very tight lipped about this topic now days so little info is available.