Looking for something to spray inside the sills and important little hard to get at places on my 1302s

Has anyone had experience with "Prolan" (Lanolin oil) or Ruststop Rx100 or "Fisholine" as spray on rust preventatives. All claim magical properties in penetration and prevention. I intend using POR15 on where I can easily get to. That is a proven product..... for floor pans etc, but I also need something that creeps in and penetrates where I cant easily get to.

Fisholine and lanoline will smell of their original owners ie, fish and sheep, but that will pass and is preferable to the dreaded rust.

As a preventative we have used Prolan on some jobs ... have not had any clients come back with any issues as yet, but in terms of the smell... you may want to not use the car for about a week and just let it air out ... we use it on converted shipping containers and even in that volume of space the stench is horrible

on some of my older cars ive used a combination of: brush on tar / sikaflex / and cold gal paint

electronic rust proofing coupler tec and erps

I have always heard good things about Wurth products

http://classicandspeedparts.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop...

http://ppcco.com.au/coatings_sw2.htm 

http://ppcco.com.au/fact_sheets/pi/pi_sw2oil.pdf 

no matter what product you use you must clean and the dust n dirt out of the cavity to be protected

i use a old hack saw bland to scrap the crevices out them blow out with air some times even wash out with water and allow to dry before applying the preventative

Deodourised fish oil is never de-odourised

For general maintenance of rust i use Lanolin.Spray where ever i can get.
My dad also uses it in the same manner,and both have found it to work fine.
Used fish oil once and never again.Simply becuase it last for freakin ever,and stinks.
but you can get the stuff that doesnt stink as much,but like chris mentioned above.not really.LOL.

but that is as maintenance,in most cases you should really try to physically remove it.
Hope that helps.
good luck.

My Son likes Lanolin to stop rust...

He doesn't like the smell of fish oil...lol

whether Lanolin dries ?? I don't know...

LEE

PS: fish oil dries hard after it has gone into every nook and cranny.... lol

Both fish oil, Lanotec lanolin and other commercial products like Waxoyl are all very good.

The electronic anti-rust units are a sham and have no scientific basis. http://www.ftc.gov/opa/1996/07/rust3.shtm  and others.

They're in the 'buyer beware' museum alongside the pyramid crystals and Brock orgone energy polariser.

I've used 10 grade hydraulic oil mixed with diesel and sprayed into nooks n crannys on various 4wds n area I've had before going beach work
never had any rust issues n had the cars for years
fisholene will have every neighborhood cat whoring all over ur pride n joy n you'll wear a peg on your nose for months so forget that evil stuff
erps I've heard about n some dubbers on the sunny coast use such things n I've heard good stories about em
good luck with your quest
h

Science (the process of discovery) moves on but the basis behind it does not. Something that was proved fraudulent in 1996 does not somehow become legitimate in 2010 just because 14 years have passed. For example the polariser was tested and found to be baseless in the 1980s - a new study now will make no difference. Snake oil is still snake oil.

Electronic anti-rust units don't work because an electron 'cloud' can't be maintained - air is an insulator. There is a possibility of it working in sea water, which surrounds the components with a conductive medium. But in that case you can use galvanic protection that doesn't need a power source. I head Dr Karl on JJJ say much the same on his radio show last year; unfortunately I can't find a link. The only positive claims about these things come from the makers - that should tell you something.

But by all means fit one if you want, it's your money.

no worries..
im into science n take studies seriously
im just pointing out that a study from many years ago maybe a little dated n surely there are more recent ones to make a more informed decision
from just this "study" and make a defined judgement is a little narrow focused IMAO
but thats just my op
cheers paul

Wurth cavity wax is good, and doesn't dry out completely. It comes in spray cans, and can be sprayed into all the at-risk areas. Also, it doesn't stink.

Cheers, Greg

Remember to remove all the foam inside the body cavities at the rear, up above the engine beside the rear windows. That's where Australian Beetles rust. Use a stiff wire like a straightened coathanger and get as much out as you can.

Yes I'm sure there are more recent studies out there. That was only the first link I found, there are plenty more. Do a Google search on 'electronic anti corrosion' and click away. However be aware that most of them are manufacturer's sites - and we know how they can stretch the truth.

Look at this one for example. As soon as you see a manufacturer claiming "this is the ONLY verifiable system on the market..." you know that something is dodgy. It means that all the others don't work. So why should this one? And you can bet that another manufacturer would claim the same - in which case they are both wrong and NONE of them will work.

http://crazystu.com.au/glorust-electronic-anti-corrosionrust-device-for-your-...

Yes I agree

those electronic anti rust systems are recommended for new cars but most new cars are guaranteed from rust for at least 10 years or more... so, who knows if it works .. lol

so, why would You bother?

fish oil is an excellent product .. well worth the smell..
which disappears when it drys... and its deodorised these days..

its also non toxic... and You can catch the excess dripping out and re use it...

the major problem being the type of moisture holding foam used by VW around the rear window to stop the noise of the engine getting into the cabin..
after many years the moisture will eat thru the metal...
the beetles with air vents in the sides are the worse affected.

You can also do what many people do in UK etc.. spray all your old oil under Your car... or brush it on.. lol
I don't recommend using hypoid oil.. old or new...lol
it still stinks... YIKES...

Lee

Hows that work? Ive heard of electrified jetty pillons to stop them from rusting.

Newt

Hi

Cut the bottom off the A pillar, its a dust and rust collector. Once its done its hardly noticeable.

Steve

It's called galvanic protection. It's based on the fact that different metals have different electrical potentials, based on their atomic structure.

When you put two different metals together in an electrolyte solution, you create an electrical potential difference and electrons flow from the anode to the cathode. This causes the metal with the higher 'anodic potential' - the less 'noble' metal if you like - to corrode, protecting the cathode. The most common example is zinc-plated steel. Normally nothing happens, but when the zinc is scratched and the steel is revealed, the zinc corrodes rather than the steel.

The effect is much magnified in sea water, as the salt water acts as an electrolyte and assists in the electron transfer process. In the olden days sailing ships used to have copper sheathing on the hulls to stop barnacles from fouling the bottom. These were nailed to the wooden hull with iron nails. They soon noticed that the iron nails corroded away in no time, as they were acting as a 'sacrificial anode' to the more noble copper. When the iron nails were sheathed in wax paper, insulating them from the copper and the sea water, they lasted much longer. Nowadays ships use zinc blocks as sacrificial anodes, designed to corrode instead of the steel or aluminium hull.

Gold doesn't corrode - it stays shiny forever so it has an anodic index of 0.00. The more electrical potential a metal has, compared with gold, the higher anodic index it has and the better sacrificial anode it makes. In other words, a higher number will corrode to protect a lower number. Silver is 0.15; Nickel is 0.30. Copper is 0.35, Brass and Bronze are around 0.45, while stainless steel is 0.50. In other words, if you put gold and stainless steel in salt water, the stainless steel will corrode as it has a higher number! Tin is 0.65; Lead is 0.70; Iron is 0.85; aluminium is around 0.9; zinc is 1.25; magnesium is 1.75 and beryllium is 1.85.

An electrified system can be used to 'boost' the galvanic protection by forcing a larger electric potential between two metals that might have similar electrical properties. For example, the gap between zinc and aluminium is not as great as zinc and iron, so a normal zinc block won't work as well on aluminium pylons as it would with steel. So you attach a power source and boost the electrical potential.

BUT - this only works if the two metals are both immersed in an electrolyte - such as a pylon in sea water. Otherwise there's no electron transfer. And that's why the car 'anti-rust' doohickies won't work - they are applying a very slight electrical current to the steel, via (I presume) less noble anodes that should corrode instead of the car body. But consider - there is no electrolyte medium between the anodes and the car body, so nothing will actually happen. Except that the car body will rust as usual.

One final point - if these gizmos actually worked, don't you think the makers would fit them as standard? Volkswagen spent years developing full body-dip phosphoric paint coatings, baked enamel finishes, hot wax flooding and now full galvanised bodies, to stop corrosion. All very expensive, much more so than a dinky little electrical thing that could be fitted at the factory. But they aren't - because they don't work.

Phil, I recall all that from my high school days but you explained it much much simpler and therefore better, or maybe I was just much much dumber back then, whatever the reason, well done.

I have seen the electronic systems work. NO QUESTION

As a frequent beach driver, I've tried to maintain vehicles in the dreaded salty environment for over 40 years, and there is without doubt imo that the electronic systems I've seen in action make a huge difference.

Having said that, a rust preventative in an old car like our a/c vw's, needs to kill the rust that's already there, seep into seams using capillary action and stay fluid, so I have used a custom brew for many years with great results. The problem with most commercially available rust proofing agents, is they dry somewhat, and so don't get inside the metal seams and folds. Then they actually seal any further agent from penetrating, and seal moisture and salt inside that seam making more rust inevitable. The manufacturers design the products this way mainly so the product doesn't keep draining off the vehicle, messing up peoples nice garage and causing law suits etc. BUT, when it dries it doesn't work.

I use a brew of fisholene, new engine oil and diesel, approx 60/30/10. We did tests years ago, where we put samples of different treatments in the bottom of a piece of steel pipe laying on a bench. With a good brew, capillary action will carry the fluid right over the top inside of the pipe !!!
The other big issue is getting the rust proofing everywhere, otherwise it can't do it's job, so internal 360* spray tubes, a hoist and lots of time for cleanup are required to do the job properly, combined with electronic protection and your car will last for ever.

ps Without electronic galvanic protection, there would be NO aluminium boats still afloat (this is where the technology was developed).

By the way, very good post above Phill.

Matt, as I explained it will only work with an electrolyte medium between the anode and cathode. OK, if you have it turned on while you drive at the beach, and the contacts are both in sea water, it will work to some extent while the contacts remain salty wet. Once it dries, or you go home and hose the salt water off, IT DOESN'T WORK ANY MORE. You then rely on mainstream anti-rust treatments - which if you've done properly, as I'm sure you have, are the reason your cars haven't rusted away.

I am perfectly aware that aluminium boats use it - I thought I explained that. I also explained that boat hulls are continually immersed in salt water - an electrolyte solution.

It was around a bit before aluminium boats appeared too. Galvanic protection was first described by Sir Humphrey Davy in 1824, and the Royal Navy experimented with iron sacrifical anodes on a copper-sheathed sailing ship called HMS Samarang. It worked - corrosion of the copper was much reduced. However it reduced the effectiveness of copper's anti-fouling properties (marine growths were normally repelled by the released copper ions as it corroded).

Yeah, I agree with most of what your saying Phill, but in my experiences, where I see many vehicles, all going to the beach with differing service reguemes and treatments, and all the electronic vehicles experience things that just have to be from using the 'gadget'. Don't worry, I don't sell them or even own one, they do run the battery down noticeably quicker (maybe this is why manufacturers don't go there?), and the dudes that fit them can still do questionable work, but, disc rotors staying shiney overnight is all but unheard of without it. Also when a buggy was here that uses it, after disconnecting the system due to repairs being carried out, rust seemed to start immediately in several areas, this car was unwashed inside and sand and therefore salt on the floor, but was also dry!
I haven't had a chance atm to look at the links you've posted, I intend to, but I thought the worked buy controling an underlying electrical potential and changing it's polarity whith a particular frequency this somehow preventing the oxidation???

Hi Matt, well you've mentioned some interesting things there.

Disc rotors staying shiny? It would be interesting to know where abouts the 'unit' and its 'contacts' (anodes) are, in relation to the disc brakes, and how far away. Experiment - get a long-lead multimeter and check if there's electrical continuity between the unit and the brake disc. No rubber seals, or grease, or non-metallic parts in the way. In other words, electrons should be able to move freely between the unit and the brake disc to have any effect. If there is no continuity, there CAN'T be any effect.

Rust starts immediately when the unit is disconnected, but the buggy had sand and salt inside ! Even if dry, there is moisture in the air and that's all it takes.

Changing the polarity with a particular frequency? Electrical polarity refers to one pole always being positive and one always negative, and the current only flowing one way, which is always the case with direct current. Only alternating current has a changing polarity. Are you sure the makers are claiming that they are applying AC to your car body?

Frequency refers to wave forms - the numbers of cycles per second. For direct current, there is no frequency - it's a contiinuous stream of electrons, like water flowing out of a hose. Alternating current on the other hand, does have a frequency. In Australia, our household frequency is 50 Hz; in the USA it's 60 Hz. Historically there were lots of different AC frequencies used around the world, but since the 1940s these two have become standard. Lower frequencies are used in some railway and industrial systems, and some higher frequencies in aircraft, submarines and spacecraft. You can convert between different AC frequencies, but any one electrical device only uses one AC frequency, and i don't believe that anti-rust gizmos use AC. You can rectify AC to make a DC current with a 'chopped' sine curve at 50Hz, but that would mean it must take the cars' 12V DC, convert it to AC at a certain frequency, then convert back to DC. Hmm, no wonder it runs the battery down noticeably ! And even if it does, how does a rectified DC current assist galvanic protection better than a straight DC current? Due to the curve troughs, it ought to work more poorly.

I respect your anecdotes, but amazing claims require amazing evidence. We are often easily fooled when things are not as they seem. Here's an example - you would say these wheels are moving, but they are not. You would also say the black and white lines are angled - they are not, they are parallel.

I understand all your points of electrical principals, (Electrical fitter mechanic by trade with Electronic technician courses, but about 20 years ago )

The frequency I refered to was exactly as quoted, 'changing it's polarity whith a particular frequency'.

The contacts are in 3 or 4 positions well grounded along the vehicle chassis.

I was surprised as much as you re the disc's considering thier expected electrical isolation.

Neither of those visual tricks worked for me, I saw no wheels moving AND parallel black/white lines !!!
I do have one eye not so good so old 3D technology never worked for me......maybe some connection, or maybe some people have more brain function than others !!!! WTF

Thanks for all your ideas. This forum is great. I dont feel like I am taking shots in the dark. I have used fishoiline before and liked the results so I like the idea of the brew of fishoiline/engine oil and diesal...... Penetration is the key as we cant pull our cars down to minor componants.

How would I best get the stuff into the sills? Mine is a 71 1302s in amazing condition.... but now is the time to make sure it stays that way. I see a couple of drainage holes at he base of the door openings that appear to go down into the sills .... or maybe they bypass them? Also see a couple of rubber plugs in the base of the sills .... but the holes seem too small to get a tube up into.

Also I see your concern about the sound proofing in around the rear window. I do have side vents. How do I get into that area to get the proofing out?

You are a great helpful crowd.... thanks

Yeah fishoil works great. Don't know why people complain about the smell? Doesn't even smell like fish. Kind of smells like a combo or tarnished brass and varnish.

RUST

She is made of iron, sir. I assure you, she can. And she *will*. It is a mathematical certainty.