Hi Guys,

These narrowed Bugs - how do you stand with legality, in my case in NSW. I'm guessing it's obvious that you would require (strictly speaking) an Engineer's Certificate? Or does the age of the car nullify this (wishful deluded thinking?)?

Could it even be certified?

Thanks in advance.

Mines narrow and low .. Passed blue slip no worries. But I have an adjustable beam, so is put it down another notch after it passed. I figure if I get a defect warning, I will pop it back up .... and then back down when it clears Think I am only narrowed 2 inches too.

My thinking is, if its not horribly obvious, you will probably get away with it.

Hi

Speak to an engineer 1st.

I'm pretty sure that NSW still has a law that if you get defected three times for the same thing they will cancel the rego and make the car with that VIN illegal to register.

Passing a blue slip is not a way of saying that all mods on a car are legal, far from it, most blue slip examiners wouldn't bother too much, they get paid peanuts.

Steve

I do not see how decreasing the track of a vehicle would be legal, fitment of wheels with incorrect offset by narrowing the track is exactly the same as being over the legal track, its the relationship to the suspension geomrtry that is the issue, i called my engineer and he would not approve any reducion in track in queensland, bearing in mind that the rule's will be Australia wide eventually, all the other issues that go with a reducion in track and the wrong offset wheels, increased spring rate, increased wheel bearing wear, increased wear on the trailing arm bushes, increased bump steer, decrease in stability.

I've always wondered why you would want to, maybe someone here can clue me as to why.

Quote:

Originally posted by donn I've always wondered why you would want to, maybe someone here can clue me as to why.

.... and it looks ACE!!! Kinda like the old Porsche 356 Outlaw with the wheels tucked under.

http://coldtrackdays.blogspot.com/2009/07/build-thread-porsche-356-outlaw.html 

It definitely looks ace. To be honest though, whilst I've not been defected before, I have experienced the anxiety of driving around in an unengineered modified car, knowing big bills could be awaiting in the next plod car I encounter. Not something I really want to set myself up for again.

Good old Australian nanny state legislation.

it's great until you kill some one and you have no insurance and i don't know how it would be drivable when you have reduced the stability of the vehicle

A standard early beetle has a stability issue when it is standard, Ralph Nadder tried to have them banned in the US and succeded with the corvair. When you narrow the front end and reduce the track it will realy affect the stability, no matter how slow you drive you will eventually get into a situation were it could make a difference, when you lower the car to that extent it also contributes to the instability, driving around in a modified vehicle that has not been engineered is as i stated, kill some one or be involved in a bad enough accident and you can be charged with culpable driving, so what's really to blame, it's the person who drove the car with the unapproved modification's.

Cool man.

If you narrow the beam and increase wheel / tyre size have you actually narrowed the wheel track if the outer diameter of the wheel is at the same point of the original wheel?

Having said that i put wider tyres and wheels but didnt narrow the beam.

Hey Hey,

So, can a narrowed beam be engineered to be legal in NSW?

There is more than a few Beetles and Kombis running around with their bellies on the ground.

How did you guys do it?
Or do you just rely on the select-a-drop front end, and raise the front for rego?

They look great in photos and and shows, what are they like to drive, and stop in?

Nanny state strikes again. more people die talking on their mobile phones than from modified track accidents. And thats the truth. Drive within your limits and you can still get taken out by a drugged up or drunk safety sam driver in his Pillow Car. Towies still pull dead people out of NEW CARS. Live and Let die. My2c

It does not work that way, the wheel position relates to the suspension geometry, narrowing the beam then moving the wheels towards the outside of the car just loads up the suspension and changes all the important things like scrub radius, when track is mentioned it is asummed that no one is going to narrow the suspension, it is effectivly the same as being 50mm over track when you are allowed only 25mm.

Sensible narrowing of beams has its place, for instance when I was rebuilding my 1500 BJ/IRS bug to get my 17x7 rims to fit nicely with the stock gaurds and also still maintain a decent turning circle I was going to narrow the beam 2" which does not have a major effect on vehicle stability, even being a germanlooker that I was setting up for trackwork.

However taking 3 feet out of the beam, losing the shock towers and belting the shit out of the fuel tank for clearance, thats just stupid, and sad thing is I've seen it done.

As for looking ace, thats subjective, some do look good, others that you need a flashlight to see the front rims, no comment

On the whole nanny state thing:
* Yes, we live with an imperfect system, but in terms of the available systems around the world, we don't have too much to complain about. Isn't it Italy that won't allow you to modify a car at all?
* Yes, a lot of the time rules seem to be made just so that someone can look like they're doing something, but that's all part of the system.
* Yes you can be killed in any one of 10,000 different ways, and just because they try to reduce the number killed by any one particular method doesn't mean it can't still happen, but that is why it is risk reduction, not risk elimination. The argument that you can still get killed in a new car is not valid. No one suggests you can't, but it does make it much safer than travelling in an old car.

The government that we as a society has elected to make certain decisions for us has decided that the right of an individual to excessively narrow the beam on their beetle doesn't outweigh the rights of others to remain safe. Regardless of whether you agree with that or not, that's the way it is. This is one of the hallmarks of a civilized society, that the ability of people to do anything they like is curtailed for the greater good of society. Otherwise the strong (monetary or physical) would run roughshod over all others.

Modifying a car to get it past inspection and then taking it outside the parameters of that inspection is not only illegal, but highly risky.

For my own part, I have a 74 L Bug that is about to be lowered (obviously there isn't a beam), and so I do get concerned that shortly a public servant will decide that my car is a public menace and that I shouldn't be allowed to drive it, but with everything I'm trying to do I'm aiming to improve on what was produced by the factory, which is different from doing something which is known to increase risk.

As an aside, how would some of the engineering from red9 design go?

http://www.red9design.co.uk/index.htm 

I saw a barndoor in the last issue of VolksWorld with one of their wishbone systems in. That obviously removes the beam and should improve handling, but if you really want to lower a car on it's guts you'd still have to try and narrow it to be able to have any sort of turning circle which would still be illegal. So the only solution is to be happier with the car not at snake height.

If you want to be able to go low with a good turning circle, what about putting widened guards over stock-width wheels? It would provide the extra clearance required for lowering without compromising safety and legality, and it would look awesome as well. Plus, wide guards are fairly cheap, so it might even be cheaper than a narrowed beam! It's win-win all round.

Never let the facts get in the way of a good witch hunt!

Quote:

Originally posted by helbus Quote: Originally posted by vwo60 A standard early beetle has a stability issue when it is standard, Ralph Nadder tried to have them banned in the US and succeded with the corvair. Wha? Now that is funny Read this page http://squid1351.tripod.com/squidsvair/id1.html

The current regs are only in place as a response to people performing back yard mods that have been responsable for loose of life and injury over the years, i have no problems working with those regs and to make my car legal, this way i can insure my car and have no issues with the law and if i have a accident i know that i am covered

I DONT CARE!!!! (yes im yelling)
my bug is lowered and i like it and no it wont kill anybody else because i did it and i did it right and all those who dont like it can .....................!
ok i feel better now

if your wiper blades are cracked and you have an accident in the rain then your insurer can decline your claim. Loopholes are named that way for a reason.

Quote:

Originally posted by LUFTMEISTER if your wiper blades are cracked and you have an accident in the rain then your insurer can decline your claim. Loopholes are named that way for a reason.

Its good to see that gringo 54 oval's car is lowered correctly and so the modification must be approved