Going Subaru in my panther trike. In near future there is a good chance I'll want to sell my VW engine.

What's it worth?

New in 2009 1916cc Done 31,000 kms, Flamethrower electronic ignition, twin weber 40 carbs, large sump, has been mated to a type 3 auto so never revved hard. Mature owner. Religious oil changes etc.

$1000.00 complete yes lowball but gotta start somewhere, where are u located ? who built it , cam?

5 buks

If you agave it a health report
* dyno chart
* compression test
* leak down test
* end float figures

Then I think you would get bloody close to the $6.5k figure quoted.
A running tuned motor with no jetting issues is worth the money

Its worth what the buyer on the day is prepared to pay for it

sell it at night then

Quote:

Originally posted by Bizarre If you agave it a health report * compression test * leak down test I don't think a leak down test will help to sell a used 94mm engine. unless you botch the figures ..

Sorry guys been busy.

Ok, the engine was brand new (Brazil stamped on block) when I picked it up January 7th 2009 from Panther trikes. Panther import their engines in bits I beleive and are assembled by two well known mechanics in Woolongong and delivered complete in a crate to gosford where they are installed in a trike.

My 1916 was ordered with the large sump and twin solex's. A mistake was to not go with the more efficient exhaust systems on offer.

Unfortunately I had troubles which was very uncommon with their trike engines. I trailered the trike to Strathbogie near Benalla Victoria and after 20 kms of riding the engine stopped. Turned out to be stripped cam shaft gears. Engine came out and back to Woolongong where, instead of waiting for their normal supplier they replaced the gears with german ones. But it still didnt run right. (all under warranty and Panther people remain good friends)

Eventually the engine was extracted by VW performance centre Croydon. Daniel and Mick were great and very professional. They found- a score along the bore of one cylinder and 8 slightly bent valves. The following took place-

4 new pistons and barrels same 1916 size
8 new valves
heads shaved to raise compression
2 brand new webers 40 size
Electronic ignition

Immediate improvement found especially midrange.

Since then the trike has done 31,000 kms. Its an auto and I dont rev out my engine eg never do I use it manually. I've towed a 450kgm caravan recently and before that a 240 kgm camper trailer on trips but often just riding to trike runs in Melbourne on the freeway. the trike weighs 500 kgm. So the engine hasnt had a hard 31,000 kms.

When Daniel dynoed the engine after rebuild he commented that the exhausts are strangling the engine and wasnt happy with the overall performance due to that and that we retained the standard cam.

The engine has normal oil use about 400ml to every 1000-1500kms.

I would assume the buyer would make a few more mods to get the best out of this engine.

Hence a sale price of $5,500 is now posted.

Buyers can test engine in my trike and upon sale assist me in taking it out. I live half way between Melbourne and Albury (Strathbogie).

I have purchased an EA81 and plan to tour the top end with our caravan.
Tony 0438 360 934

EA81?

really? I think you'd have been better off with a big oil cooler on the 1916. That or an EJ.

EA81...lucky you

horses for courses, each to their own. you want EMU's, twin OHC's, so muc stuff on an engine you cant see it? more difficulty with engineers etc etc go for it.

I only posted the fact I'm going Subaru to suggest I had a genuine reason for the sale.

Yeah but EA81 is a gutless old engine. Your 1915 will kill it for torque. Put a stroker crank in your 1915, it will out perform the EA81 hands down, even your 1915 will a freshen up/headwork will easily be better. For torque...search 'The Samba' for stroker single ports. Ignor the hp figures and read the comments regarding thier pulling power in a Kombi. I'm building a big torquer for an auto trike for towing and if you hold off on your conversion, come take it for a test drive. I guarantee you will not go the EA81 route once you drive BOTH.

Another question, did Subaru make auto EA81's, if so were the cams/CR etc the same as the manual? This is an important consideration knowing the VW Auto trans requires a decent vacuum signal for shifting (if that's what you call it?)

Also for $6.5k, I sold Col a freshened, low mile 2332 IDA engine turn key, exhaust-clutch with 141rwhp. This engine won't work for your aplication (you'll need a custom built engine for your auto) but he'd take you for a drive for comparison. I have a few clients with Trikes and big engines, they have mild cams for comparison sake, but they idle like a stocker but have plenty of the OH FUCK factor

I wont and cant argue about what you've said Matberry- you know your stuff.

However, I'm in a different frame of mind and maybe different mindset. Another factor is that I've picked up an EA81 recoed 80,000kms ago by its mechanic owner and have a brand new dizzy and weber carb.

There are actually some owners out there that dont desire/need sheer HP to suit their needs. The Vw engine in my view does have its drawbacks and if they didnt Subie engines wouldn't be an alternative-for anyone. Subie engines would enver be used in light aircraft for the same reason.

You might not agree with the concept but a single dual throat carbied (bought a weber carb too) cheaper to maintain engine is for me. And I'm not planning to spend $6500 on an engine.

I can see my 1916 in a beetle or similar and better suited for that application.

The EA81 has all the parts you want to leave behind on a VW (pushrods, 2v percyl) and it needs a radiator... and it's smaller than what you currently have. I'd listen to Matt. Sell on the EA81 and keep your 1916.

Common guys, are you biased?

Lets mention figures somewhere between $5000 and $12,000 for a well modified air cooled.

Pick up a good EA81 for less than $800 complete, adapter (one off buy) weber dizzy etc. Spare engines still out there and will be for a while yet.

An example:

I used to own Lotus powered Ford Escorts. I fiddled, tampered and perservered with them. They only lasted 30,000kms till rebuild time as they were a racing engine. A club member put a V6 into his from a Capri. Went harder, better economy (3 litre versus 1.5) and for 4 years he didnt lift the bonnet. There is a message there.

I've made my choice and we all have those choices. But it is chit chat I suppose.

Fanaticism breeds empty pockets.
If the vw is such a good choice then I shouldnt have trouble selling it??

You guys should convince Subaru to put VW aircooled into their Legacy's. But I love your commitment!

Fanatics????

Of course we are ... and blinded by love

What's the weight of an EA81... I'd have thought heavier than a Volksy... and being so light to start with, won't that difference affect the handling on the trike ???

Also where do you plan to fit the radiator ???

Fair enough Joel. But if I find a second one that I can reco then both EA81's I'd own will outlast me.

Dave I think the subie engine is nominally heavier but as some have said would need engine mounts off the tow bar. vw weighs 112 kgms as it is

c of g is important. the roof build saw 3 kgms only extra on front wheel downforce for example. there is now 53 kgms downforce and considering some vw trikes have as little as 10 kgms i have plenty of room to move.

boxers are therefore ideal. a SAAB Ford Taurus (US model) V4 yes V4 engine is also ideal but too vintage and even harder to get parts. Short engine and 105kgms plus radiator!! other engines were considered. Honda torque is too high for my auto at around 5000rpm, mitsubishi 1800 a reall possibility all alloy but in line 4's add to that rear weigh issue.

at the end of the day I went Subaru. more reasons for going Subie is in the buy and sell parts section you might find interesting.

EA81s are light as, very close to the same weight as a 1600.

Ea81,s are a great motor, i dont get all this "old design" crap about pushrods etc, what are vdubs?, sure theres an argument why replace an old design with another but theres still plenty of ea s around in reasonable cond for a reasonable price,, i have had a 1916 pobjoy and it was a great motor...i wish i hadnt sold it, and ej motors are good to, but if it comes down to simple engineering, low maintenance, and easily replaced albeit with matching performance i would go ea, if you want to argue the old tech/vs new side why stuff about with an old ej with cambelts when subaru are going back to chain cams, be nice if they went to gear drive in my opinion, ea 81,1916,ej all good motors, depends on your way of thinking and budget.

Got carried away there, i sold my 64 beetle on 69 pan with a pobjoy 1916 for $1500, its a long story but really i think it was worth at least $3000, so you should be able to get around $1000 to $1500 for your motor i would think depending on who built it and cond

you said...Fair enough Joel. But if I find a second one that I can reco then both EA81's I'd own will outlast me.
true.but make sure you don't get the same person that built your vw engine to help because they only managed to f--k up the most basic off jobs to start and that's why you are in this predicument .
if your penny pinching for reliablity.your proberly best off getting rid of the trike.
i wish you the best with your old subi junk.
in my opinion you would be lucky to get a grand for your engine after telling everyone how badly it has been built.
i think your best bet would be to find a good mechanic .
sorry to sound abit harsh.but if the 1916 doesn't go as good as you think the suby will.you won't be selling it in a hurry.

Westi

You've had your say re: "subi junk". You've given your advice re: "sell your trike"

You dont think like I do at all. Firstly following my initial troubles service from the original trike manufacturer was suberb eg warranty claim. and I am aware that my issues were a one off following many trike sales. That is more than enough reason to support them and I have them as good friends. Someone like you would never be one I'm sure because you have a memory like an elephant.

I dont mind chatting to others, listening to there reasons for this or that. It wasnt my intention to get into a Subaru/VW war of words. Nor do I believe I have encouraged people like yourself to begin snapping at my heals for my decision making.

It seems clear to me that anyone wishing to sell their VW air cooled engien and replace it with a Subaru EA81 will be in your firing line. Get it straight Westi- its my money, my trike, my vision and I dont interfere with your projects.

As far as telling everyone how it was built, you misread somethings. It is how is was rebuilt that matters- by trusted mechanics from VW performance centre Croydon. Also I have never sold anything I havent been totally honest about. You can sell your stuff dishonestly if you choose. I prefer to be upfront.

I trust you wont reply further because this thread isnt to your approval. You're not needed.

Kindly read buying and selling parts section of the sale. You might be enlightened a little as to the conversion.

Be productive (and friendly) Westi with comments or stick to your own negative kind...

out of curiosity are you going to have to re engineer the trike with the subi motor ? or where your located it doesnt matter

Hi Klaus

I would assume it will need an engineer approval.

When the roof was added I was careful to get it built so, when retracted, it would only take two bolts to take it off. And as it would not likely cause any injury or death to any pedestrians (dangerous bits) it was approved by a Vicroads engineer as an accessory.




My understanding is that if your vehicle has an engine change to an engine that was an option available to you when new it would not require approval. Mine would of course unless Panther trike offer a Subie engine as an option which just might be true and I'll ring them to ask.

My engineer that did the roof went over the trike thoroughly. Hence I'd suggest he'd do it again for the Subie engine.

I might have to modify the tow bar that goes under the trike to the front of the trans because it will have the extra engine mounts the VW didnt have under the engine. A minor issue I think.

But of all engines possible the eA81 I'd suggest, is the closest to the vW engine in many ways. I dont forsee too many issues.

cool ..just heard some interesting things with trikes and getting things approved , good luck with the conversion its always nice to do things differently even in the choice of subi engines .

Sounds like you're thinking it all through, so cool - why not be a bit different !!!

After all, even running a trike in the first place is quite a bit different than most of us...



btw - not really relevant but you could always use an external oil cooler to get heat out of a Volksy engine... that's what I'm planning for the heater/aircon setup in my KG

lateral thinking there Dave with the oil cooler.