Following the Vee Dub Spectacular there was discussion again about the value of the judged car show. Are they worth the hassle? Do they encourage innovation and quality? Do people build their cars for shows or are the trophies a bonus? How can the car shows be improved?
What are your thoughts?

hey
i like the idea of the a nopt professionally judged show i reacon it should be a vote by the public etc but i think people that have nice cars dont enter because it comes at a cost and they can still display there car for nothing (like at valla)
cheers
rhys

I think I've made myself clear on this subject, but I'll type it again anyway.

I'm all for VW shows, but I'm against competition among friends & enthusiasts....

Is that you John? Welcome mate!

My reckoning is this...

Depending on the size of the show have x many categories. Each car can be entered in y number of categories. Decent sized entrant number with categories on it on or near the car. The viewers vote for each category. Tally up and you have your winners...

Or sponsors choose for the category they sponsor.

I reckon we got the best of both worlds at Valla. There were cars there that people had gone to huge amounts of effort to have looking their best for the show and they were well worth looking at. Then there were cars like mine which were just driven over at the last minute to make the numbers greater by one! The whole thing ended up a pretty good show and I didn't meet anyone who didn't have a good time. Personally my view of show judges is not high. I went to a show once where a mate of mine lost points because he had left the radio on. The judge must have liked some other music.

I can really take it or leave it, BUT..

If you do have a show, there must be appropriate categories(eg. Early Type 3's, 62-68, and Late Type 3's, 69-74 or whatever.. Instead of Best Type 3 for example) and a few specialist ones as well(Baja/ off road, possibly rat look in the future). This makes it even for everyone.

I like the people judging..
Lets you know what people like instead of judges.

I am only new being involved with VW's and the Clubs and stuff but I would have to agree with Tazz and a couple of other people that the cars should be judged by the public and the cost to enter such shows as Valla should not be $40.00 but more like $10.00 or $20.00 as most people have to travel a fair way to get an opportunity to put the lovely cars on show

hey
yer at valla the only postion for all kombi owners was best kombi all years !!! and as a fellow dubber stated "how am i meant to get a prize when im against something that is lowered and has mags"
cheers
rhys

I just don't have the $$$ to show and shine, just love my rides:kiss

It's fun to just be involved, and to learn what I need to do to remain stock with Bel, and just to cruise with other Vee Dubbers. I just like the feedback, to learn, and to enjoy

Show and Shine is a very serious past time, and if you enjoy it then do it cos I absolutely love looking at beautiful rides that owners take pride in:thumb

I have no aim to get there, just want to keep Bel and Dr L on the road:sandrine

Have no probs with never winning a prize

Me either Jen, just happy to see my car in the show and shine events. Get a kick out of seeing getting judged and lined up against other cars in the class. And that it drove there under its own steam. I know there is no way my oval (in modified class) would collect any trophys because I dont even bother to polish it or anything.

But I can appreciate the work and commitment in building a show winner. And also believe that competition raises the standard of the serious show cars. Just look at Jeffs Cool 56, deservedly picked up best modified pre 57 at Valla. With the blood sweat and money that had gone into that car he really deserved the trophy. Will he get it next time? who knows but the bar was raised, all it needs is for some one to step up and raise it higher.

Exactly, at the DOVW, I love to enter Bel and see her next to the others. That way I can see what she is missing better:thumb plus take pride in my girl:kiss

Jeff's Cool56 is amazing

How does he work that gear stick?:o

Well, will have to get there next year if it happens *fingers crossed* so we can see if anyone gets over the bar

Better pull my finger out. Would love to have both the chopped rod and the bus there!

Hi John

Welcome along, hope you liked your VW fix.

Having been involved with the running of the VW Nationals since its inseption, I like shows, they incourage people to go that bit further, to build that car just a little bit better, what I dislike is the politics and blatent trophy hunting, deliberate cheating (we have had people try to enter the same car in both modified and stock class), the list goes on.

I have not entered my car at the VW Nationals because I dont feel its fair for an organiser to enter, there could be talk of bias by the judges.

At the end of the day the car that wins is in the opinion of a judge to be the best, this is not always the case.

Beneton, there is just not enough Type 3s entered to have seperate categories for year models.

1302Steve

Yes, Mrs M, the cost of entering should be much lower.. $20 Max.... My Son's girlfriend took her just finished Baja to Valla 2 years ago, but as there wasn't a seperate BAJA category, She had No chance of winning.... One judge told Me that He takes points off, if the car has dust on the wheels or hubcaps... they should be spotless... He said... I don't think dust has anything to do with a Nice VW.... Imagine how much dust was in that New Beetle Cabrio at Valla..on Sunday afternoon...
:bounce:bounce:bounce:bounce:bounce:bounce:bounce

they always have the peoples choice at the "VW nationals" at Easter in Sydney.. I Voted for Steve's 1302S this year, but naturally My Vote wasn't counted .... You could win it Steve... One Beautiful Beetle and I don't really like superbugs....
:thumb:bounce:bounce:bounce:bounce:thumb:bounce:bounce:bounce:bounce:thumb

Woooha $40 bucks for a look at cars that some of, you can see for free the day before! man thats mad! I ve been to many vintage car and bike shows some almost as big as Valla and I have never paid that much, think next year will be for the chance to meet VW people from all over OZ and see some nice VW's just walking around, in the parade and at the camp ground!
Rob......

I think that you should have 2 areas one for the people who go to all the trouble for the shows . Then have a people chocie show for the cars that are not the top show type of car just a street car .
What does anybody else think about that

Marc

That sounds like a good idea to me, Marc.
Rob.....

Jenz Im with you, I dont care If I ever win a show or not, But I am building a "show" Car, that really wont be driven! I think there Should be a "peoples" choice award, and then the Different Categories,

Early Bug-67
Late bug 68 on
Early t3 62-69
Late t3 70 on
Off road (bajas+buggies)
Split screen Buses
Bay windows
Full custom
Best of show (judged by experts!)
And so on!

N!

:puke Show and shines judged by Hot rod?street car judges who know little or nothing about vw's or even more specific certain types of vw's and the work etc that goes into them. Friends manx was marked down because it had a non-detailed/black underbody.Its an off road car????? judge them on their merits. Show and shines can be way too political etc but so too can dog shows, it is nice to share your vehicle with others who love them, they should have the say. Like Ettamogoh Pub show. I know what some will say then big clubs etc will just all vote for their members and that happens to. Is there an answer???? I just know at valla $40 was way too much to pay to go in it.

Some other stuff ( while I am on a roll)
A 'show' car that arrives by trailer or is hardly ever driven does not compare to a well preserved speciman and seperate catergories that encourage the average need to be included.
And More catergories for vehicles other than beetles. NOTHING AGAINST BEETLES but they always seem to get a heap of catergories meanwhile splitties and bays are in the one???? They are different cars and deserve their own catergories. How do you compare a kombi camper to a van show car ????? Then Beach buggies?Baja's and Kit cars should also be seperate. How did Bajas and buggies stand a chance against the prestige of a porche kit car at valla????? Even buggies and Bajas should be seperate. Maybe we call it a share and shine

having been involved with many clubs for many years I must say there is no answer. The more you try to solve the question the more complicated the judging scheme becomes the more time it takes and the more money it costs.
I think they all have their place. I think that Dubs by the Pub is a great setup where every member that shows is automatically entered into the show. The BLBVW try to have categories to cover most areas but still get complaints. This is always going to be the case. For example, and I use offroad class. How can a used offroad buggy compete against a show car offroad buggy which never goes off road ? . Same same with daily driver etc etc.

Maybe as a good compromise there should be 2 or 3 classes judged by judges, things like concourse and show class categories and the rest by peoples choice.

In relation to Valla, I wasn't there this year but have heard nothing but bitching about the $40 entry fee. I must agree that tryting to profit off those people that have put the most $$$ and effort into their cars is a bit rude. I reckon if they had of charged, say a gold coin entry to look at the cars most would have happily paid and they would have had many more entrants.

Theres an easy way to fix the judging....

Volenteer to be a JUDGE yourself.

This will solve all the problems or Street machine judges and people choice etc etc etc

Or if you dont like it creat your own show and trophy list.


If you have ever run or been involved in a show then you will know or realise some of the costs involved.

IT AINT CHEAP... I can tell you that from experience buy running the VW Nats in sydney for the last 16 years.

Theres an OLd saying

You carnt please all of the people ALL of the time... only some.

:beer:beer:beer

thats why ur car always wins hey dave old tricks of the trade :P
i really dont care cause im not the competetive type but i hate seeing good cars like lee's and steves go to waste by not being entered!!!!
cheers
rhys

I'm a real fan of the balls out car show and pleased to hear that many believe that have there place.
There will always be problems with judged shows like the Kombi problem at Valla (from memory the last Valla I attended in 1997? had a big increase in Kombis so its up to the organisers to respond to these trends).
While on Valla wasn't the entry fee $20.00 per category?
I also think that the peoples choice is a good addition or even format for a show however having expert judges is necessary. A point in case was the car of the day at Valla. Perhaps it was just me however I walked past this car several times as it did not appeal to my taste in VWs. When it was awared car of the day I took a closer look and then saw what the judges saw.
Do you think there is a risk of good cars being over looked at 'peoples choice' events or does the law of averages kick in?

Personally I think perr judging is the way to go as it reflects true and genuine respect for not only quality but style.

I have been to a few shows where they have judged and non judged entries and it is quite often a non judged that wins the peer judge 'car of the day'.

It is up to the individual to participate in a professionally judged show, but a true sportsman will accept the decisions no matter what.

Just rememnber if you have a fairly schmick VW how many times people comment at the servo when you fill up and dont worry abot the lack of 'plastic' trophies on your wall. Your VW is it's own trophy.

Love it and it will love you.