You learn something mew every day

Tatra introduced an air-cooled flat four engine in the 1926 Tatra 30, followed by the T52 of 1930, T54 of 1931, T57 in 1931, and T75 in 1933, all with air-cooled flat fours of varying displacement. The 1936 T97 model pioneered the rear-engined,air-cooled flat-four, backbone chassis layout, later copied by the Volkswagen KdF-Wagen.

Yes, I believe that VW later paid Tatra several million deutschemarks as retrospective compensation for stealing the design. Of course, this was long after they had built several million cars and created a successful company.

From Wikipedia: "Tatra sued Porsche for damages, and Porsche was willing to settle. However, Hitler canceled this, saying he 'would settle the matter.' [5] When Czechoslovakia was invaded by the Nazis, the production of the T97 was immediately halted, and the lawsuit dropped. After the war, Tatra reopened the lawsuit against Volkswagen. In 1967, the matter was settled when Volkswagen paid Tatra 3,000,000 Deutsche Mark in compensation."

The Tatra T97 engine bay:



The generator is separate to the fan, but otherwise it looks pretty familiar!

VW designed the VW flat four engine. Tatra designed the Tatra flat four engine. So what? No one ever said the VW was the FIRST to use that particular design. But VW did it best, and by far the most successfully.

In any case, Ferdinand Porsche designed a flat four aircraft engine for use in Zeppelins in 1912, long before Tatra used that layout. He designed backbone chassis and air-cooled engine designs for Zundapp and NSU in the late 1920s. Porsche and Hans Ledwinka worked together at Wanderer (and often shared ideas. Porsche invented and patented torsion bars, for example.

And the first KdF-wagen prototypes were designed in 1934. Have a look too at the Type A Auto Union grand prix cars Porsche designed in 1934 too - torsion bars, swing axles. Porsche didn't 'copy' anything.

That Wikipedia article isn't quite right - it has Hans Ledwinka and his family looking for compensation, not the Tatra company. Porsche was always happy to admit that they shared ideas - "sometimes I looked over his shoulder - sometimes he looked over mine."

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Ok I give up. stupid forum wont let me post those arrows

Seems black64 is out to stir the pot....

Lots of stories about of Porsche and who actually designed the engine..
We will never ever know the truth..now..

Renault also picked Porsche's head while He was in prison in France after the war...

and the trainload of Beetles that disappeared after the war
can;t remember where they went??

Tatra cars were usually much larger than the Beetle

The last Tatra from memory was an 8 cylinder air cooled in the rear..

LEE

Porsche designed the kDf-Wagen after he had done earlier, similar designs for Wanderer, Zundapp and NSU, NOT after he saw Ganz's little two stroke MaiKafer. The Ganz story is a furphy, based more on religious self-justification than reality.

This is Porsche's Zundapp design from 1932 - torsion bars, platform chassis, rear air-cooled engine. The direct predecessor of the Volkswagen.

Go Phil

didn't the original meeting between Der Fuhrer and Porsche occur in 1928, with the first sketches of his rear engine platform design occuring then.

The flat 4 engine was only meant to be short term solution for the Beetle while they sorted out the bugs in the preferred options (including a 2 cylinder supercharged 2 stroke).
Maybe they got distracted by other events at the time?

what came first, the chicken or the egg

The Egg,

Also I've read that one engine that was tried (for the VW) was an aircooled 5 cylinder radial engine. I've never seen a picture of this , does anyone have one? How would it be fitted ?

i think you are ALL wrong.

it was Herr Flick who designed the Flat four and beetle, the original sketches were found on the rear of the painting 'the fallen madonna with z big boobies'

Franz Xavier Reimspiess joined the Porsche team in 1934 and is the man who is credited with coming up the E60 engine design. This is the engine that we know today as the VW flat four.

The only known example of this engine was recently found in Austria It was originally fitted to car VW38/16

cock a doodle dooooo oohhh aahhhhh