Hi guys

I'm sorting out a number of issues with a car that I have recently purchased.

It is a 1916, with a mild Engle Cam (I think) with Fuel injection.

I have a range of VDO gauges. oil temp, oil pressure, etc.

The oil pressure gauge is in KPA x 100 with a range from 0 to 5.

Can somebody please tell me what the oil pressure should be:

1. at initial startup of the car? (ie: during warm up)

2. at 2000 rpm?

3. at highway speeds?

Should the oil pressure remain constant or will it change?

Thanks for your help.

Regards
Greg

Hard to pin point exactly because your motor is modified so there isn't going to be a "spec" figure
also is your case a dual relief or single relief? and what size oil pump do you have?; what viscosity of oil?, what temperature?

I don't have a 1600 spec manual but a pre '65 1200 is supposed to be
SAE 10W-30 with oil @ 70 deg celcius
@550rpm - 7 psi = 48.25 kPa
@2500rpm - 28 psi = 193 kPa

the above at least gives you a baseline to go off

Cheers
Shaun

what pressure do you have at the above engine revs

Hi guys

I just changed the oil using Mobil 20-50w as I had no idea what oil was in the motor and how long it had been there.

I plan on doing a test tomorrow.

I'll post the results.

Thanks

Regards Greg

Hi guys

I did a test this morning with the car after replacing the oil yesterday. The car is fitted with an external oil cooler connected to the oil pump (I don't know the specs of the pump) located above the gearbox, and a deep sump. I dropped out 5 litres of nasty black stuff and put in 5 litres of Mobil 20/50W. I started the car and ran it for a few minutes then check the oil level. It was about 50mm over the high oil level mark on the dip stick. I thought that it may have been due to the external oil cooler being empty?? Anyway, I took the car for a test drive noting a range of data including KPA, Temp etc. I have attached a PDF file with the data.

After the test drive I checked the oil level again and it was still about 50mm above the top mark.....is this telling me something????

Oh, the engine was built from scratch in 2009 with all new parts, Brazilian AS21 case (dual relief), new heads (I can't remove the rocker covers to check what type but they take the 19mm reach plugs) etc. It has done almost 19,000 kms.

Regards
Greg

Update regarding oil level....

I checked the oil level again and it has dropped and is now about 20mm over the high level mark.

You're running high oil temps.........fix that, and your pressure will increase

5 Ltrs of oil is a bit excessive for a lil' dub engine!

Over filling is just as bad as being too low. Crank will cause froth and your pickup tube (in bad cases) will sick a air/oil mix, not giving proper lube to the bearings.

I'll drain out the excess oil.

What should the oil pressure be at startup and whilst under load??? What should I be aiming for?

Regarding the high oil temp issue, I'm aware that the temp is excessive and it is on my todo list. The car has a large external oil cooler connected to the oil pump and I think a cheap doghouse shroud and tinware that isn't doing what it's supposed to do....cool the engine.

I may start another thread just on the high oil temp.

Can you give me an idea of what temps I should be aiming for?

Regards
Greg

Oil should be above 90 and below 120

105 is probably the point to aim for

Looking at your chart your temps are just continue to grow.
At no time do they start to come down.
That is the concerning part for me.
125 is really at the top, but, yes, it all depends "where" you measure from.
I have heard there can be as much as 10-15 difference in measure point

The fact you have a external cooler and still getting to 125 after 40kms and 1hr and no more than 3k revs

Does the external cooler have a fan??
Does the fan come on??

Hi Bizarre

The external oil cooler is 280mm x 180mm x 40mm (deep) and is located above the transmission and is connected to the oil pump (I have attached a photo, note that one of the standoffs is missing...any idea where I can get these from locally??). There is no fan or thermostat that I can see. I checked to make sure that oil is in fact getting to the cooler and it is (it was very hot to touch after a test run). I have not yet removed the fan shroud to see if the original cooler is still in place. There is no oil filter on the system.

I would expect that the location of the cooler gets minium or no air flow. I have been investigating cooler fans but really wanted to hear people's opinions before I embark on any changes.

My gut feel, is that the tinware needs to be looked at and checked to make sure that everything is where it should be and is therefore providing the cooling that the engine needs.

I have also booked the car in with guys who are experts in the ECU that is fitted to the car (Atom G4) so that we can see how things have been setup.

Thanks again for your helkp with this...I'm working through all of the issues to make this car a reliable daily driver.

Regards
Greg

when Volkswagen put the bigger 1600 motor in the beetle they added vents into the engine lid.
I think your car still has old type lid no vents.
you can either pop it up at bottom or buy some hood jacks. to let extra cooling air in . we run the hood jacks.
.

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=45068&page=1 

.

I think that you should change volkswagen oil every 2500miles.
we use castrol edge 25/50 or 10/60
I think stan pobjoy also uses castrol edge.

http://castroledge.com.au/oils/ 

Do's the car engine have a stock doghouse oil cooler as well as the external cooler or just the external cooler .
Doe's it possibly have a power pulley ( ie small dia bottom belt pulley ) which makes the fan spin slower .
Is the exhaust clean and no soot after a drive or can you get soot on your finger when wiping inside the pipe , when checking this preferbley don't leave it idleing for any period as it may be running rich at idle but lean in the upper end of the rev range which is leading to the higher temps .
Apart from that the idle oil pressure holds nicely at the 1.5 which i'dd be happy with

Definately the engine oil is too hot. Increasing oil cooling is like shutting the gate after the horse has bolted. The engine temps must be sorted, putting bigger coolers etc is not the answer. I have engines over 9:1 CR, 2.3 litres and NO oli cooler required. Definately need air available into the engine bay. If it has a wide fan (should be with the doghouse fan housing) you MUST have bigger air vents or stepped deck lid as suggested. Otherwise it purely comes down to engine effficiency, ie tight deck and reasonable compression ratio and matched components, exhaust system, heads and carbs must be happy with the cam choice.

Yep I experience no overheating on my engine; 1300cc, 20W50 Penrite Classic, 30mm Oil Pump, 9.3:1 CR and a stock in-shroud cooler.

If I go on the track I pop the bottom of the decklid open. I also run ALL stock tinware

I run a 2276 in a ghia with the standard vents, 10.8 to 1, i try to never get the oil temp over 100 degrees at any time, cylinder head temp runs at a constant temp of 135 degrees, external oil cooler with fan and thermostat ,oil temp is taken after the external cooler as i want to see what oil temp is actually feed to the bearings, i haver a IR gun and have looked at different temps over the motor, if you take oil temps from the block it is not the actual oil temp as the heat migrates through the block material from the barrels and other heat sources, my oil pressure runs at a constant 3.5bar at 3000 RPM and at idle is 1.5 bar with a temp of 90 degrees, the fan on my cooler is controlled by a electronic controller that allows you to set the turn on and of point of the fan, plus allows you to set alarms at other point to warn you of a temp rise, you will need to find the cause of your high temps as it is outside the recommended temps, you should run a oil thermostat and fan with a good fan controller as a matter of course to protect your engine. i also have a scoop under the car to direct a good air flow to the cooler

Hi guys

Am I correct in saying that my oil pressures are fine?

If that's correct then I will start a new thread that focuses on the high oil temp.

Here is the new thread http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=100629&page=1#pid940842 

I understand completely that it is important that all of the tinware is correct and correctly fitted and that the rubber engine seal is correctly seated etc.

Regards
Greg

Your oil pressure is low because of the high temps

Ok...so, as a priority, I will focus on reducing the oil temperaturen and getting that issue sorted out.

Regards
Greg

engine been tuned properly as it could be running lean or too much advance ?

Hi Klaus

Yep, I have the booked into the Dyno next Monday to see how things have been setup. We are looking to go for 30 degrees maxmimum advance.... the car is running an EFI system.

I put a timing light on the car and it was showing 25 degrees at idle.

Regards
Greg