L Bug front springs - lower and stiffer
Dazz - July 9th, 2013 at 03:56 PM
I am putting in some new front shocks in my L-bug and want to change
The front springs to lower the front.
Any suggestions?
I was told that VK Commodore springs fit but I don't know what ride height that
Will give.
Bizarre - July 10th, 2013 at 07:49 AM
You are better off lowering the cup rather than the spring. You should also put a shorter insert in.
There is a sticky on this in "frequent questions" section.
The other option is Empi adjust strut. They are not too bad and cheap.
Also look up Topline VW Parts.
They have all the bits you need.
If you are wanting to run 6" or wider wheels on the front you will need a narrower spring in.
Joel - July 10th, 2013 at 10:04 AM
It'll ride like a shopping trolley with how stiff Commodore springs are gonna be in the front of a bug.
Depends how low you wanna go, stock struts are only good for 50mm before they run out of travel and bottom out.
I don't normally advocate the use of Empi parts escpecially when it comes to brakes and suspension but the adjustable struts are reasonably well made
and 1000s of people use them.
The beauty of them is you can fine tune the ride height if you're not happy with them and they are made with shorter inserts so don't run out of
travel.
THe stock struts unless you shorten them will still run out of travel and if you lower the spring cup you are stuck at the height.
BiX - July 10th, 2013 at 11:21 AM
I have a set of king springs. 30mm loer and 30% stiffer than stock. With Koni sports it was a firm ride. They just stayed captured when u jacked the
car up, sio about as low as u can without new cups and golf inserts etc.
I am pretty sure they weren't in the catalogue but can be custom made for not much more. Talk to a GOOD suspension place.
Like above though if u want wider u need to go to narrow springs shocks., I got a 195/60r15 in the front on empi 8 spokes but used wide rubber on the
guards and it polished the inside of the guard.
SebastienPeek - July 10th, 2013 at 11:52 AM
Lower it.
Bizarre - July 10th, 2013 at 06:33 PM
here ya go
Have a read here
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=48798&page=1
and here is the Topline site
http://toplineparts.com/
Just be careful with the American spring ratings - they are different to ours 
Dazz - July 10th, 2013 at 06:36 PM
What I'm looking to do is lower it to a point where handling is improved for cornering as I want to do the occasional track day but will mainly be an
on road prospect.
Maybe the Empi adjustable a might be a decent compromise.
Any local suppliers or anyone got some they are willing to part with?
Bizarre - July 10th, 2013 at 06:40 PM
Classic Vee Dub is you best bet.
He is at Rydalmere just near Victoria Rd and James Ruse Drive
I would ring rather than email
TorxKiwi - July 10th, 2013 at 07:51 PM
Get the Empi ones, I did. They're easy to fit, work a treat and were about $200. It'll take you longer to get George at Classic to answer the phone
than it will to fit them
Good luck.
Dazz - July 10th, 2013 at 07:56 PM
Who stocks the Empi ones?
Bizarre - July 10th, 2013 at 09:00 PM
| Quote: |
Originally
posted by Bizarre
Classic Vee Dub is you best bet.
He is at Rydalmere just near Victoria Rd and James Ruse Drive
I would ring rather than email
|
click here
https://www.classicveedub.com.au/cvd_new/parts.aspx?SearchData=struts
Uber Kafer - July 11th, 2013 at 08:42 PM
| Quote: |
Originally
posted by TorxKiwi
It'll take you longer to get George at Classic to answer the phone than it will to fit them
|
brilliant... welcome to the world of Volkswagens...OZ Style.
But...as a superbug owner... I can tell you there is no such thing as a 'cheap' and 'effective' way of lowering a strut front.
Do some research, thesamba.com, http://www.superbeetlesonly.com, etc and you
will find countless stories of people who try all the cheap and nasty methods, then they go round and round, and finally find the solution, and regret
not having acknowledged the good advice they got from day one. Which is - Get modified struts with narrow springs and short (VW Golf typically) strut
inserts. It will cost around $1000 for the pair.
And a strut brace.
.
And you will be grinning.
SebastienPeek - July 12th, 2013 at 11:12 AM
Topline MaXX struts and a strut brace. Thicker sway bar and you'll be loving life.
Joel - July 12th, 2013 at 12:58 PM
| Quote: |
Originally
posted by Uber Kafer
But...as a superbug owner... I can tell you there is no such thing as a 'cheap' and 'effective' way of lowering a strut front.
|
Many including myself will disagree with you on that one.
Rewelding the spring cups lower is free if you know how to weld and as you are not changing the spring the ride is still exactly the same and it's
perfectly safe if your welding is up to scratch.
The only down side is 50mm is about the max safe drop doing it that way.
Any lower than that and the suspension travel is a bit to limited.
I went 75mm with these ones and the car rode ok and cornered like it was on rails but on bumpy roads it would hit the bumpstops more than it
should.
Empi adjustables are only $200ish and ride well enough, replacing the inserts with better quality ones is advisable though.
If $200 is gonna break the budget VWs are not a good hobby.
Uber Kafer - July 12th, 2013 at 04:06 PM
Joel, I said cheap & effective.
for sure you have identified a cheap way, but then detailed the problems with it so thats less than effective. As well as that the width of the stock
springs is another limitation when tyre and rims are considered. Some people wont even want to compress the springs and rebuild the strut, let alone
cut and weld an existing set.
My point remains. for most punters who want a straightforward boltable upgrade, and as sorted as can be, a modified strut system is the way to go. I
got mine from V Force a while back, I dont know who else supplies a set like that. Anyway thats my advice in answer to Dazz's original query.
modnrod - July 12th, 2013 at 06:24 PM
Dumb question of the week for both of you from the red corner please.
How tough are the lower arms and mounts underneath? No, I'm not going to jump the little "El Bug" over roundabouts with glee, but my roads up here
are crap. Mr Kafer, think of the old road between Donnybrook and Bridgetown, back before they made it bearable. And that's before I've hit the
gravel and sandy washouts that cracked the front rail on my old crappy XF ute..........
Any hints for triangulating arms or bracing mounts will be gratefully welcomed.
Easier than replacing twisted lower arms every year or two.
Joel - July 12th, 2013 at 09:14 PM
| Quote: |
Originally
posted by Uber Kafer
Joel, I said cheap & effective.
for sure you have identified a cheap way, but then detailed the problems with it so thats less than effective. As well as that the width of the stock
springs is another limitation when tyre and rims are considered. Some people wont even want to compress the springs and rebuild the strut, let alone
cut and weld an existing set.
|
We're not talking about cheque book restorers too scared to turn a spanner on their own car here, but for most diy guys it's perfectly effective for
people looking to go down 2"
Dazz did say he's just looking for improved handling not a speedbump demolisher.
Sadly looking around shows these days it seems not many people restore their bugs for good driving/handling anymore and many just lower for looks
rather than handling.
| Quote: |
Originally
posted by Uber Kafer
a modified strut system is the way to go. I got mine from V Force a while back, I dont know who else supplies a set like that.
|
Several places around that sell adjustable threaded coil overs identical to what Richard sells, Topline Xtreme and Kerscher for example.
| Quote: |
Originally
posted by modnrod
Dumb question of the week for both of you from the red corner please.
How tough are the lower arms and mounts underneath? No, I'm not going to jump the little "El Bug" over roundabouts with glee, but my roads up here
are crap. Mr Kafer, think of the old road between Donnybrook and Bridgetown, back before they made it bearable. And that's before I've hit the
gravel and sandy washouts that cracked the front rail on my old crappy XF ute..........
Any hints for triangulating arms or bracing mounts will be gratefully welcomed.
Easier than replacing twisted lower arms every year or two.
|
If you're getting twisted/bent control arms you must have a 74 or later with the crappy pressed steel arms?
It might be worth swapping to the earlier style, they have nice thick solid cast arms, you'll never hurt one of them.
Mine cops a hammering on the roads around here, I've just got a strut brace in and Toplines urethane bushings, my main wear items have just been
balljoints and tie rod ends.
Uber Kafer - July 12th, 2013 at 10:06 PM
Hey, whoa.. you seem to be coming down on a demographic here.
"too scared to turn a spanner on their own car"
How do you know that? And dont hang $hit on people cos they dont have your knowledge and your shed and your tools.
modnrod - July 13th, 2013 at 06:21 AM
| Quote: |
Originally
posted by JoelIf you're getting twisted/bent control arms you must have a 74 or later with the crappy pressed steel arms?
It might be worth swapping to the earlier style, they have nice thick solid cast arms, you'll never hurt one of them.
Mine cops a hammering on the roads around here, I've just got a strut brace in and Toplines urethane bushings, my main wear items have just been
balljoints and tie rod ends.
|
I've travelled north thru there in the early 90s, the roads out there are similar to here, at least the bitumen bits.
I have a '73, so that's good to know about the cast arms, I thought they may crack.
Thank you Joel.
Joel - July 13th, 2013 at 10:53 AM
| Quote: |
Originally
posted by Uber Kafer
Hey, whoa.. you seem to be coming down on a demographic here.
"too scared to turn a spanner on their own car"
How do you know that?
|
We're getting a little side tracked here so I wont try and derail Dazz's thread too much more.
If someone doens't have the confidence or desire to even throw a set of spring compressors on a strut and replace the insert like you said it's a
pretty good indication,
they should probably stick with owning stock cars.
Modified cars need the driver to be a bit more in tune with setting up and whats going on.
It can get dangerous not just for them but other road users when people start modifying cars not knowing what there doing.
Like if Mr X goes and gets lowered struts fitted to his bug and it bump steers and swerves into on coming traffic because he or whoever fitted them
didnt know about the geometery changes when lowering suspension.
Anyway irrelavant to the original topic.
| Quote: |
Originally
posted by modnrod
I've travelled north thru there in the early 90s, the roads out there are similar to here, at least the bitumen bits.
I have a '73, so that's good to know about the cast arms, I thought they may crack.
Thank you Joel.
|
No worries.
Have you had a control arm bend on you or are you just concerned that it could?
I would think even with the later 2 bolt steel arms you would find if you hit something hard enough to bend or crack the control arm other things
would give out first like the ball joint or camber bolts shearing.
A 73 may already have the cast arms, it was a cross over year and Aus didnt get the newer 2 bolt setup till late 73.
Do you know if you have the 2 or 3 bolt struts?
I should have been a bit clearer, if you did have the later setup with 2 bolt steel arms, the struts, spindles and sway bar would also need swapping
too, a lot of work if you didnt have a donor front end.
modnrod - July 13th, 2013 at 02:45 PM
3-bolt, Mar73.
I haven't bent or cracked one, but wasn't sure how tough they are.
Thanks again.
Dazz - July 14th, 2013 at 10:56 PM
Lots of good advise, just 1 question, where can I get the Empi struts?
I am a boiler maker by trade and am going to cut and drop the cups when time permits but would still like to have a look at the options
Bizarre - July 15th, 2013 at 07:42 AM
^^^^ Dazz, my post above gives you a link to the Classic Vee Dubb site and takes you to the Empi struts.
Dazz - July 15th, 2013 at 02:43 PM
So it does, sorry I missed that link.
1303Steve - July 15th, 2013 at 05:03 PM
Hi
I'm convinced that heavier springs prevent the Super bug wobbles.
I've had for a short periods of time, worn lower ball joints, flogged out tie rod ends and worn out steering damper bushes all with skinny struts
with heavier springs and no shimmies. Actually my sons 1303 still has a worn steering damper bush, np shimmy.
I've seen somewhere on the web a guy that I think fitted Honda Civic rear springs in the front of a a super.
Steve
Joel - July 16th, 2013 at 09:46 PM
| Quote: |
Originally
posted by modnrod
3-bolt, Mar73.
I haven't bent or cracked one, but wasn't sure how tough they are.
Thanks again.
|
That will be the early cast control arms, they are very tough.
The ball joint and camber bolt would give out before the arm would.
| Quote: |
Originally
posted by 1303Steve
I've seen somewhere on the web a guy that I think fitted Honda Civic rear springs in the front of a a super.
|
EF CRX and Civic hatch.
An easy mod to get narrow coil struts with a good spring rate.
modnrod - July 18th, 2013 at 08:25 AM
Tapered springs like these?
http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Tapered-Super-Beetle-Strut-Springs-Pair-87-0308-...
Description sounds about right, price looks OK I guess. I've always used Kings Springs in the past for most of my other stuff, but their spring rates
I feel are TOO stiff, depending on what ride quality you want.
Bizarre - July 18th, 2013 at 06:50 PM
they are more for squeezing in a fat tyre.
They drop it bugger all.
US springs are generally softer than what we use here