Has anyone seen, heard, researched a mid engine bug in Aus?? I have been looking into beefing up a vw trans but its very expensive to gain only average strength in the grand scheme of things... Just really poking the question out there..'

What factory transaxle and Engine setup could be used? Turboed 4 cylinder preferably.

Lets brainstorm!

mid engine. ideally a suby box from Todd without reverse R&P, just using standard suby one.

otherwise a 914 box since they are mid engine and use t4 engine as stock. In this case I would just get a whole 914 way better car imho

J20a's are a pretty punchy suzuki engine, The M series suzki engines are pretty baller aswell from what I have heard. 4agze would also be a biiiiggggg yes if you were wanting to go that option. All engines are from front wheel drive cars. You could even look into Excels, the 1.5l engines (not the 1.8L) are meant to be pretty reliable and you can work them easily, plus they cost like $200 to buy complete.

I dont see how you are possibly going to build a mid engined bug for under $5000 though. That's around what I believe it would cost for a reliable gear box. Not to mention that you would probably be up for another $5000 in engineering cost to keep it on the road, and the headaches involved in working everything out and making it all custom. It will add up verrrrry quickly.

What power are you wanting to achieve? how much are you wanting to spend? What application is it for? (Offroad, strip, circuit?)

There are shitloads of options out there. There are rancho boxes (some will advise against, other have no problems with) There is also Dave Butler down the gold coast, the dude is the king of reliability in VW gearboxes from what I can gather. There is also Subaru Gears who offer Subaru transaxles for VW applications.

Then you get into engines. $5000 will get you a balls-to-the-wall VW engine. The same money would also get you an STI engine from a WRX (Simple tune and you are around 300hp... ).

You also have to think about brakes, rollcage, seats, harnesses etc etc as soon as you start cracking the 100rwhp range.

You can go stupid fast reliably in a beetle so easily already, why reinvent the wheel? haha.

This is just my 2c, i'm sure many of the elders will correct me if I'm wrong.

Cheers, Allbones.

Just to get your tounge wagging, here is a mexican mid engine build using an Audi V8. It's a track car and there isnt much VW left, but its amazing none the less.

http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=12942 

This would be a ICV, this would entail using the current ADR approved engine plus conform the any other engineering rules that would apply, i did the exercise but the cost would be prohibitive, i stopped because i could not use a type one engine, this was the sole reason why i did not build the car. can be done with deep pockets if you want it to legal and safe.

Its for an offroad racer, rego is optional. I can do rollcage and all mounts and fabwork. I am returning from the 4x4 rockcrawling comp world and wanting to go fast off road I would be looking at 250hp PLUS. WRX engine is looking the goods, or SR20 or 4age with a blowdryer on the side.. What needs to be done to an IRS box to handle 300hp? surely the little clutch and diff cant handle that reliably.

Forget the IRS box and go subaru, should of said it was for offroad only, the sky is the limit.

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=91455&page=1 

Evo.


Done.

A subi box obviously needs some work done to make it drive in the right direction (using it with rear engined). Whats the comparison between building an IRS box or a subi box to hold 300hp? ie cost, fabrication time, gearbox mods etc

excuse the noob questions, I havent touched this car in 5years!!

If you are pretty good with fabrication why not stick a Subie engine in the back, Subarugears AWD reversed 5 speed in front of it, driveshaft through the tunnel and Subaru r160 rear diff upside down in the front of the pan? Then you can have 300hp turning 2 diffs and 4 wheels. Nobody will catch you! Reverse ring and pinion is $1500. Use the Subie driveshafts, uprights and brakes in your chassis setup and you have great stopping power as well.

Quote:

Originally posted by modnrod Evo. Done.

Peter Keegan did a all VW based mid mounted car in the 90s

Used to race at the VW Nats Drags at Oran Park

Didn't john spinks run a mid engine sports sedan too??

This is what Ive come from.. started as a blue farm ute.. now its 5L v8, 4 link rear suspension 16"travel per corner


So i want something different! I can transfer alot of my suspension knowledge over and fabrication, but the VW to Subi stuff is gonna have to come from you guys! muchly apreciated of course

Luke

Wow Luke, that's some awesome stuff.
If you want pricing and details on Subie stuff, check out http://www.subarugears.com 
It's all explained there in great depth, plus take a look at build updates and videos on our Facebook page and youtube channel.
Some nice 300hp at the wheels 2wd VW's going around.

If you're making it mid engined, there's no reason to use the stock VW layout. Just chop the whole back of the car out, make some strut towers and install any FWD engine combination of your choice. You could use a Magna V6, they are dirt cheap and go pretty hard. They're actually quite popular in the offroad scene.

If you want to actually take it off-road racing, then you will need to look carefully at the classes and class rules. The first point to notice is that Performance 2wd allows all engines under 6000cc in the one class, so if you want to keep up it is highly advisable to use a V8 or turbo V6. Performance 2wd rules state that "The original engine/gearbox/final drive configuration, in relation to the body, must be retained," so your mid-engined Beetle will probably not be allowed, depending on whether the scrutineers determine it to be close enough to the original engine location. In fact, you won't be allowed to cut into the floorpan either, as " The original chassis and/or monocoque, including any sub-frames, must be retained in its original location; and must remain unchanged in dimensions, plan view and silhouette." This will bump you up to the next class, which is Extreme 2wd, meaning that you are free to build almost anything you like, as long as it is less than 6000cc and vaguely resembles a production car. You will then be playing with the big boys in trophy trucks and similar machinery.



In my opinion, it would be far easier and better to build a buggy rather than a Beetle. In the buggy classes, there are actually lower-powered classes such as Prolite, which is 3500cc naturally aspirated, hence the aforementioned Magna engines. I'm definitely not an expert, but have a good read of the rules and talk to some competitors and officials before you commit to a plan.

http://docs.cams.com.au/Manual/OffRoad/OR06-OffRoad-Specific-Reqs (SR)-2014-1.pdf
http://docs.cams.com.au/Manual/OffRoad/OR05-OffRoad-General-Reqs (GR)-2014-1.pdf

Yeah good info mate cheers, as with everything, a left field idea has now turned into suggestions of a ground up buggy build!! Haha gotta love boys and our toys..

I would say Im looking to pump maybe 5K into this thing over 6-8mths max! I know if its any longer I'll lose interest again...

OK well the mid engine idea is scrapped due to classing. I have a few thoughts...
1) Drop my goal horsepower, use the IRS box adapted with a N/A scooby..... How much can I pick up an adapter for? What power will it handle with these super diffs? What can the clutch handle? I can machine up axles to suit.

2) Keep the turbo, run a subi trans reversed, guessing thats gonna set me back about 1500-2k for motor and trans, plus 1500 for the R&P

3)Some sort of kombi box

Don't forget that even with the engine in the stock location, you will have to do a lot of re-engineering to the suspension to get a Beetle to cope with off-road jumps!

Note that if you cut the body down into a Baja for better approach and departure angles, then that puts you straight into Extreme 2wd anyway, so at that point you may as well carry on and put a mid-mounted engine into it.

As far as the engine power goes, I wouldn't be particularly worried about it. Getting the suspension and chassis reinforcements right is the first priority for off-road racing, power can be upgraded once the car has successfully done a few events without breaking anything.

I don't want to dampen your enthusiasm, but out of your $5000 budget, I would estimate that you need the following:
$1000 worth of safety gear (absolute minimum, assuming you bought your seats used, etc. You will need two of everything, because off road cars need room for a co-driver. A new pair of harnesses will cost $600 just for starters!)
$1000 worth of suspension
$1000 for wheels and tyres
$1000 worth of roll cage tube and other materials (?)

In this calculation, I haven't even mentioned brakes, hydraulic handbrake or any other niceties. By my calculations, you won't have the budget for any engine or gearbox work, other than maybe an exhaust.

What is your car like to start with? Is it a Baja already? Running a stock engine and box?

Hi mate,
I hope I haven't put you off your dream!
In case you wanted some information, there are cheaper ways of going fast on dirt than just off-road racing. Here's a photo of my old 1500 Beetle doing Khanacross at Lanac Park. This cost me very little, as the car was basically stock and Khanacross only requires a helmet, mudflaps and a 1kg fire extinguisher bolted down inside the car. No roll cage, harnesses or other expensive gear to price you out of the competition.



What's the catch? The catch is that Khanacross is a very short track, you do approximately 5 to 7 runs throughout the day, which normally last about 1 minute and 30 seconds each.