and your bug shoots to the right, what does that mean? not all the time only when its a pretty big bump which is pretty often on these goat track roads here in Queensland.

"ladies and gentlemen we'll be landing in Brisbane very shortly please make sure you remember to wind your watches back 30 years"

Going to need a bit more info on your front end there. Could be worn parts or combination of part,set up as a whole, misalignment. Way to many variables.

Love the analogy for QLD. Funny cos it's so true

Anyhow, as to your problem. Does the car drift badly to right if you let go of the steer wheel? And have you checked all the tie rod, ball joints or LP/KP's for wear lately. Does the steer box have quite a bit of play in it?

the front end is new, all new tierod ends etc. It had a wheel alignment done recently. The steering box looks new too, but it does have some play in it. Ive tried to adjust it out but it seems to have stiffened the steering but not reduce the play. I noticed heaps of play at near to full lock too. Lots of liquid grease in there so that cool.

It's whats known as BUMP STEER - a characteristic of the VW front suspension and tends to be accentuated when you narrow the beam.

How sloppy is the steering damper as this was VW's attempt at reducing vibrations and what not thru the steering wheel.

Steer box play is normally worse at the dead ahead position and not at full lock but most peps only know how to use the screw on the top of the box and not how to remove play from the worm drive bearings.

From memory the steer wheel shouldn't have more than 20mm of rotational play in it before the pitman arm moves, or if all the tie rods/BJs etc are in good nick the roadwheels move. More than that and the box needs adjusting and if after adjusting is still excessive then the box is worn out.

Quote:

Originally posted by karmann141 It's whats known as BUMP STEER - a characteristic of the VW front suspension and tends to be accentuated when you narrow the beam.

Um, the VW front end doesn't have bump steer, unless it's set up badly, the swing axle rear on the other hand has plenty......

It depends on so many things, set-up, worn/poor quality components, shocks, rear suspension bushes, misaligned rear end, cracked chassis......an endless list really).
I can only suggest taking your car to a GOOD VW specialist.

Where are you located?

I've never had a Beetle jump to the right.
Occasionally a step to the left.........

I'm with Matt, a big scary change of direction shouldn't be there.

Any car that "shoots to the right" when you hit a big bump in the road has something wrong with it. I would suggest you have an expert have a look at it before you end up in front of a truck heading in the other direction.
Dave

There's obviously something wrong with the front suspension / steering.
Most VW drivers will never experience bump steer - but it's there, it's inbuilt in the design.
If suspension components are damaged or worn - it may accentuate bump steer which is exactly what blompod is describing.
Modifying the suspension - narrowing beam, wider wheels, changing susp travel etc will all affect bump steer. Generally the further you get away from a standard setup.

thanks for the imput, yeah true, its probably more a priority than at this stage all the other stuff I want to do the the car. Safety first, I'll drop into Custom Vdub. Top bloke and seems to know his Vdub shit

Bump steer is not there in the std suspension. Yes you can position components incorrectly and end up having bump steer but it is not inherent in the design. Many offroaders increase suspension travel and with a well engineered system NO bumpsteer is the aim and definately achievable. The arc of the trailing arms still has a sweet spot where there is zero toe change.
The swinger rear changes camber AND toe through it's suspension travel, it is inherent in the design. Hence the swing axle steering in the back during a bump, believe me I have experienced this.

Sorry to dis-agree,Matt, but is is possible to have quite serious bump steer at the front...particularly on the R/H side. This is due to the short tie rod 'arc' moving the steering arm in and out, while the wheel moves up and down [and not in and out]. Hope that is not too confusing.

It is possible to improve bump steer at the front [but not eliminate it] with equal-length tie rods, as I have done on No.8 Beetle. The mods I have done on the swing-axle rear have reduced the rear bump steer to around 1mm. These changes make the car much more 'driveable', particularly with the wider tyres.

I bow to your superior knowledge folks, there is some bump steer in the short tie rod side, aparently. Thanks for setting it straight Greg

Quote:

Originally posted by matberry Bump steer is not there in the std suspension. Yes you can position components incorrectly and end up having bump steer but it is not inherent in the design. Many offroaders increase suspension travel and with a well engineered system NO bumpsteer is the aim and definately achievable. The arc of the trailing arms still has a sweet spot where there is zero toe change. The swinger rear changes camber AND toe through it's suspension travel, it is inherent in the design. Hence the swing axle steering in the back during a bump, believe me I have experienced this.

Ok... I feel I have to jump in.

Karmann - most suspension systems travel in arcs and have bump steer in them, the beetle just suspension travels in a FORE and AFT arc instead of inboard-outboard like most cars. It is no harder to limit the bumpsteer, the key is only find the center point of the arc that it is traveling in. In fact if a cars front suspension did go straight up and down the bumpsteer would be HUGE!

HappyDaze - You are correct the short steering rod has more bump steer, though standard suspension travel the standard system has 0.5mm on the long rod and 0.8mm on the short. Narrowing will make this alittle worse, but limiting the suspension travel should bring it under control.

Matt - As I just stated, the standard vw does have more than zero

Blompod - once again, I would like a bit more info. is your car lowered much? how big are your tyres? link pin or ball joint?
IF you are positive about the condition of the parts in your front end and KNOW that your front end alignment was done correctly (if it is a link pin front end I doubt this) have a VERY good look at your steering box attachment to the beam.
- Make sure that it is bolted on tight.
- Make sure the pressed metal section that holds it on is not damaged
- Make sure the 2 metal tags welded to the beam to locate the pressed metal section are there, are they lined up correctly? there should be no wear and wear between them.
- If you have a very early model, I am not sure that they even had the locating tags? Somebody else may want to jump in with this info
- Make sure the pitman arm is bolted on and there is no play or flogging of the splines.
- Make sure all your 4 beam bolts are there and tight (don't laugh)
- Inspect your frame head for damage or bends. Again check the captive nuts at the other end of the beam bolts, is there cracking around them?

What I am trying to say is that your car should not do this, unless it is pretty seriously modified and something has been overlooked

Even if, under perfect conditions, you had 0.8mm at the R/H outer tie-rod end...it would mean an actul 4.2mm at the R/H tyre.

As you say nils, virtually any modifications will make this worse.

That's right, by the time you get to the outside edges of the tyre you are talking about 4mm difference between the front and back of the tyre (depends a little on your tyre size)
But don't be alarmist about that, that is only if you are using the whole of the suspension travel in one fowl swoop. One more thing I would like to add about that measurement, this is all modelled without taking into account any clearances for moving parts. Every ball joint/bush and bearing needs some clearance to move and before it gets from your tyre (hell, the rubber tyre and massive side wall is taking some of that movement) to your steering wheel any movement is filling up those clearances. Of course if your parts are worn out, this changes thing considerably. A well put together beetle should not drive badly nor dangerously.

I'm assuming blompod is talking about "normal'' road pot holes, what ever normal is? If everything else is correct, my money would still be on incorrect position of the pitman arm. Also blompod ask at what point your wheel alignment was done? If your car just came off jacks or had not fuel or spare tyre in the front while being aligned, the toe will be very different than say with spare and a full tank and yourself and the missus and luggage. well you see where I am headed.

good luck with it