as per title, any users out there than can comment on usefulness of either two?

I have a friend who designed few engines on one of the programs for his speedway cars and the engines output and torque/power delivery is just pure insanity, have to be record breaking for sure.

looking at the programs they are not that expensive and sound like a powerful tool so would like some feedback.

They are like most of those programs that are available, the more accurate the data and the more data they can process, the closer the actual real world end result would be.
The Dynomation programs always used to be based on a bucketload of fudge-factor algorithms, this is in no way a criticism, but basically the more off-the-wall the results they spit out are, the more unlikely their accuracy, as they are based on real world tested and proven results over a long period of time. If the program has insane levels of power, then it's likely to be on the outer limits of the algorithms, and so unlikely to be as correct as they sound. Only building the thing and tuning it will tell for sure.

There are other programs available which are also fairly cheap, and are based on different sets of scientific (or experience-based) principles. There is the Engine Analyser series of programs, which are heavily biased towards using the "pumping loop" and mechanical efficiency data calculations from your scientific text books, and then there is also the excellent program "Pipemax", which is heavily biased towards using intake and exhaust resonances and speeds, and the algorithms both observed and hypothetical that result.

Which one you choose will be a matter of personal taste I think (having used and owned all of them at one point or another), but I will say that far and above all possible engine parameter designs they compute and spit out, is the rapid learning curve they put you on in regards to choosing successful and complimentary engine component selection, and the tuning effects.

yeah those other things you mention other programs do is what dynomation does. You can use 2 types of modeling in that program, conventional and wave. wave being based on intake and exhaust wave tuning.


anyway I was surprised from an actual real wold results that transferred from more basic and cheaper desktop dyno program to only few % of actual dyno and real race figures that a good friend achieved on a number of his speedway etc.. engine with absolutely mind boggling results that technically beat Australian records for one of those engines by 100 rwkw.

I seen it all in person and thought WTF!! impossible!! but as it was all modeled first and custom work done to meet the modeling specs, results were just mind blowing. The engine aren't that special in their makeup, certainly not screamers and comparable rev range to stock, NA engines but just make stupid amounts of torque from idle to redline thus make enormous power at relatively low revs.

when i seen these engines I was like.




Iv'e been allowed to replicate one of them but for street use but like to have a play with the programs and model my own engines to suit my needs and driving styles. It would certainly help as I can't get any advice on a suitable combo to suit me as the market only has experience with engines that have poor streetable power but great for drag racing, and its all standard range of off the shelf parts which are not complimentary of each other.

yeah so i think it would be a great tool to get me in the ball park, of course like you said the data has to be accurate for the input, I will test my existing engines and compare to my dyno results to see how close it is. learning curve? meh, this sort of shit I find real easy to pick up.

I ended up getting dynosim 5.

all I can say its stupidly awesome! very accurate against actual dyno tests I did. its very easy to use, I picked it up in few hours and couple of days I had got some engine designs that work really well.

Now going ahead and building the first engine. It was a huge eye opener on what works and general sense of how components interrelate in making torque and power.


highly recommend it!

Cool. May have to check that out when tuning my NA EJ22 as not so many off the shelf items for non-turbo EJ motors.

If you like, you can give me all the specs of the engine and what you want to achieve. I can run a sim for you.

Im so excited, just handed in my head for work and will start building over the next few months. Can wait to put in an order for my one off custom cam with Clive cams

When I get to that point me thinks I will. And you've designed a custom cam? You clever bean. What info did you use to design the profile?

yeah I designed a custom cam for one of my cars as all the aftermarket ones are lousy being too peaky at stupid un streetable rpm and heavily compromised bottom end in which the engine in question is what its famous for, torque, lot of it! and at very low rpm, certainly didn't want to ruin that just broaden it to redline so I have lots of power everywhere.

Anyway. I need things like bore, stroke, valve sizes, number of ports, flow numbers at as many lift values as practical, exhaust configuration, intake configuration(flow if possible at 1.5" Mg or even TB size will do)
rod length, piston pin offset if any, um altitude, humidity, compression ratio, rocker ratio if any, fuel you want to use, what style of combustion chamber you have, any VVT info you have, current cam specs at .050 and seat to seat, lift etc... what effective cam specs once VVT comes in and what rpm. The rpm range you want to use, how you want the torque curve to be more or less. blah blah

Then I can work it from there.