Hi guys

Ive ordered a MSD Digital 6AL Control unit for my buggy to hopefully sort out the low rev hesitation & fouling plugs.

I have been told by CB Performance to go off the instructions for a Petronix distributor & coil. The engine has a Magnaspark ignition set up on it at the moment.

Question is how hard are these to install??

Cheers
Dan

Hi

I flitted one to my sons bug a few years ago, no big hassles, just keep it dry.

Steve

Hey Dan fouling plugs is usually a jetting issue too mate, in bike world running too high a octane that the motor isn't built for can also make plug fouling more apparent. Generally high output ignition systems are just masking that actual problem, not there aren't massive benefits like throwing the points in the bin!

Hessitation makes me think you're using a 009 dizzy and plug fouling is either rich fuel mixture or incorrect fuel octane for the compression ratio being run.

I would figure these things out first before fitting the MSD unit. If you are using a 009 then the programmable ignition advance MSD model would have been the better option than just the high output version.

If you have a big fat spark you can make the car run on kero and camel piss, it'll still fire well! Best mod in the world.

Thanks guys, at the moment its running a Magnaspark ignithion kit on the engine, it has been dyno'd twice, once in Rods Dyno chassis and once in my
buggy. Problem is when it gets on the road it has a hesitation when you put your foot down, this has been there since day 1, hence the second time it was dyno'd in my buggy. I believe that the
jetting is right hence the reason we've opted to try out the MSD Ignition kit.

The hesitation is when you put your foot down in either first or second gear around 2000rpm it coughs and sputters and then goes like a scalded cat!!!

Cheers
Dan

I think it's be worthwhile trying an OE vac or SVDA dizzy connected to one of the carbs vac ports to see if that cures the flatspot.

Flatspots are either incorrect fuelling or a timing issue but as you say it's when you floor it then that to me says ignition advance problem which with a mech only dizzy can never be solved unless you go fully mapped ignition.

It's funny how the 009 is always a issue with people, I have had one on my 1916 for about 50,000ks and have never had a issue, granted it was a proper Bosch one, wondering if people are using Chinese ones? Actually I even put one of the el cheapos in the 1600 sp I built for my old car, (so I could keep the 1916) anyway let us know what fixes it for you dan, I hate finding the fault of flat spots can be a big stuff around, have you asked Rod for some help?

Yeah mate Rods been great, we thought it was right as it performed great on the Dyno but when I got home &
drive it the hesitation was still there. It's hard because it costs me a day every time I need to take it back down to Rod.

Who in Newcastle could I take it to to have it tuned?

Ive just noticed that the Distributor cap spun slightly when I was cleaning the engine, could some one tell me
what timing I should be running until I can get hold of Rod.

Cheers
Dan

1432 bud, it should be cast into your alternator stand if it's a genuine one, yeah I can imagine it would've been a pain.

Do you have a timing light? What is the jetting and venturi size, pump jet, emulsion tubes etc. valve size?
Dyno does nothing for off idle and transition between idle jet to 2500rpm and main jet (2500-4500).
Roughly 7.5 btdc static, all in 28-32 with timing light.
Please post a photo of the fouled spark plug.

cheers Vduboy sorry mate I was after a timing setting not firing order.

Fish26 yes I have a timing light but I can't get hold of Rod (think he's away racing)
to find out what that had the timing set at.

The hesitation I had was always around 2000-2300rpm generally when changing gears 1st-2nd when the revs dropped. Get the revs over 2500rpm & it goes like a scalded cat!! Unfortunately just driving around i can't always keep the revs above 2500rpm.

Even the other day I put the foot down in first gear & it just coughed spluttered & then it wants to go.

Fish26 sorry I didn't take note of what jetting we ended up going with when it was dyno'd, I'll set
the timing in the morning & see how it goes, thanks for your help

Sorry mate I misread.. I'd be starting off somewhere between 7.5 and 10 btdc, but like fish said should be all advanced by 3000 I think.. The other thing to check for is the size of the leak jets in the bottom off the bowl, I put zeros in mine so all the pumps fuel gets squirted when you put your foot down, stops the lean bog you might be experiencing. I just used some 6x1.0mm grub screws loctited in. See if you can get the carby details even just for curiosities sake..

Jetting increases can lessen the issue or in some cases cure the problem but if using a dyno you have to load the dyno to simulate road conditions and not just do a power run as the fuelling is very different between a power run and street driving.

Another option is getting hold of an AFR meter and welding a Lambda sensor boss into the exhaust manifold so you can drive the vehicle on the street and see if the AFR drops badly below 14.7 around the point the flatspot occurs.

AFR will then tell you if lean or rich. I'd say rich which is either jetting related or just unburnt fuel due to incorrect ignition advance.

Thanks guys, I'll speak with Rod when he's finished racing & see what we can come up with, I may head back down to
Southern Motor Works again as Jason was great to deal with & have him tune it for street driving.

Cheers guys

Set the timing to 7 btdc sounds good in shed, drive out shed..... Snap accelerator cable

Cheers Hellbugged, the problem I'm having now is a different problem to my original hesitation below 2300rpm. Since accidentally moved the distributor cap, I'm struggling to get it back to how it was running before I put the MSD control box on.

I've just done a few test runs,
But it's still not running right, I'm about to give it a test run at 30* btdc. Probably best for me to just wait to speak with Rod and see what it should be set at, after this run I will wait to speak with him.

Thanks for everyone's help

Hi Dan ,
Sorry I was out of touch all weekend , away racing .
The timing settings should be on your dyno report and would either be one of the following ,
15 degrees static and 32 degrees total , or
17 degrees static and 34 degrees total .
The Magnaspark distributor is set @ 17 degrees advance and it should be set up to have full advance @ about 2300 rpm's .
Use these settings to try out the control box to see if makes a difference .
The MSD instructions will tell you to increase the spark plug gap to about .045" - .050" as the sparks are more powerful due to the system being a CDI .
The MSD will fire the plugs 4 times every time instead of the single spark , however this will only happen up until 3000 rpm's as there isnt enough time to multiple spark after 3000 rpm's .
This may solve the mystery fouling of the plugs by burning more of the fuel in the combustion chamber at low revs .
I suspect that we may have to decrease the venturi size if you are not going to rev it harder .
By decreasing the venturi size we will create more air speed through the carbs and the engine will be nicer to drive down low , however the downside is that you will also loose the top end performance and some power .

I also find it quite amusing to read all of the comments on here from all of the good engine building people and tuners as to what your issues could be , If you need me please call ,

i'm sure the guys were just trying to help and you know me, i'm no engine builder or tuning guru just can't resist throwing my 2 cents in, since he moved the cap my instruction was roughly 7.5 btdc static so he can at least get it started and time it with a light. It's hard to give information without knowing the full combo and i apologise Dan if i gave you the wrong info.

Hi guys

I really appreciate everyone's help as I wasn't sure where to start when I realised the distributor was loose. Ive
found out that my MSD ignition install was correct, but even after I'd caught up with Rod on Monday and timed
it correctly it was not running right.

Long story short, recently my buggy was caught out in a torrential hail storm (the day before I installed MSD).
On Monday after double checking everything I checked my fuel.......... Both fuel filters were half full of water!!
Water must be getting in up near the filler cap, I've drained the tank, pulled both the Carbs off & stripped down to
remove all the water from the bowls.

Buggy runs sweet now & the MSD Ignition Control box has certainly made the hesitation around 2200rpm
better.

Funny you should say that mine got turned into a submarine at work the other day, filled up #3 and #4 with water, had to de drown it at work so I could go home! Can't wait to make a proper airbox for it.. Awesome news you found a problem, what is your next port of call to sort out the hesitation?

So as suspected the MSD is just helping to mask an underlying problem. I'm glad it worked for you but we're back to the same train of thoughts for fault diagnosis.

Either too rich, possibly lean, fuel mixture or incorrect ignition advance.

Maybe check out the old Ford EDIS system, Electronic Distributorless Ignition System. I've seen it used to good effect on not just VW's. 009 dizzy was never a good choice for the VW lump IMO