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One for the offroaders
Adam_C - September 8th, 2003 at 04:23 PM

****** all questions relate to a vw balljoint based offroader with body removes inplace of a steel frame and cage, used to get to remote fishing spots and camping and general bush fun :P******


not including the body where are the areas that will fail first on a VW based offroader and what areas to strengthen.

would a 2LT kombi motor and box be the best setup for an offroader? remember keeping it to vw parts (not like wes haha).


are the stock disks/drums combo efficient for offroad use

is a full length wheelbase better for bush offroading or would a shorter w'base be better?

and anything else youd like to add ?

and also is there a better platform to use instead of the beetle ? type 3 maybe?

ill be designing this in auto cad and using plans for other motocycle based buggies i have here and this is just questions .... not looking at building .... yet :P

cheers
adz

[Edited on 8-9-2003 by Adam_C]

Baja Wes - September 8th, 2003 at 05:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Adam_C
not including the body where are the areas that will fail first on a VW based offroader and what areas to strengthen.


The ball joint shock towers are prone to bending / cracking. seam weld them, and gusset them. Then add bracing.
Reinforce the long tie rod, as a stock one WILL bend. Reinforce it with the sway bar. Front susp cops the most, and therefore need the most beefing. I run stock rear with no probs, but modified front as described.

Quote:
would a 2LT kombi motor and box be the best setup for an offroader?


Yes. Good gearing and the strongest box. If you only have a small motor with not much HP, then the 3 or 5 rib may be more suitable to rough terrain, or if you wanna run huge tyres.

Quote:
remember keeping it to vw parts (not like wes haha).

Your a bee-atch :D

Quote:
are the stock disks/drums combo efficient for offroad use

They are sufficient. when you get sick of adjusting the rear brakes you may upgrade them to discs. You'll really notice this if you drive on sand alot.

Quote:
is a full length wheelbase better for bush offroading or would a shorter w'base be better?


full length will fit more stuff in, but short wheel base will definitely be better offroad, better ramp over clearance.

Quote:
and anything else youd like to add ?

did I mention your a bee-atch?

Quote:
and also is there a better platform to use instead of the beetle ? type 3 maybe?

A range rover. Those bush rangers they make are cool. But beetle is the best VW base, unless you wanna use kombi gear. a kombi rear end will let you use std kombi running gear very easily. although the kombi rear end is heavy.

Quote:
ill be designing this in auto cad and using plans for other motocycle based buggies i have here and this is just questions .... not looking at building .... yet :P


I'd love to swap autocad files with ya sometime.

BiX - September 8th, 2003 at 05:23 PM

hey wes what autocad files do u have? iam trying to track down some drawings of ball joint front and irs rear if u have them? Iam drawing up a autocross/hillclimb car at present in autocad.

Adam_C - September 8th, 2003 at 05:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Baja Wes


Your a bee-atch :D




Well . . . . i try hehe

if i shorten where is the best place?( see attached photo is it like this or take it off the front?)
if i shortened here, how would i go about shortening the shift link? anyone got a link to a "HOW TO" and one last thing, how far to shorten to create optimal length?, ground clearance is no prob, i know that the weight should be as low as possible for better COG

and ne1 else with questions please post, im sure the offroaders will be happy to help:P

Adam_C - September 8th, 2003 at 05:32 PM

Any Cad files you wana donate to aid in the design feel free to email me saves me doing then if theyre allready done

adzslick@iprimus.com.au

;) cheers

Adam_C - September 8th, 2003 at 06:41 PM

do balljoint disk brakes go onto a King and link beam?

K&L is stronger ....right?

Adam_C - September 8th, 2003 at 09:46 PM

how bout bus suspension? back and front .... would that be a better solution?

Brad - September 9th, 2003 at 05:20 AM

Quote:

do balljoint disk brakes go onto a King and link beam?



No and debatable in stock form. Not enough difference to notice. You can make them fit but they are not a bolt on item.


Quote:

how bout bus suspension? back and front .... would that be a better solution?



If you are going to use VW parts and build a custom chassis there is many better ways to do it. If you want to make it easy just use a beetle floorpan and suspension. You will kill yourself before they break if you build it right.

Don't bother shortening it. It is not worth the hassle and a good lift and 2L kombi engine and box will get you everywhere you need to go. The increased stability is worth the trade off. The original manx was shortened to compensate for the piss weak ground clearnace availible in the day. Now IRS and lifted fronts are the go even Meyers Manx don't build SWB Buggies.

Jamox - September 9th, 2003 at 11:57 PM

What year did the 2L first come out?

If I was ever going to put a 2L and 6-rib box in my baja, should I do it now rather than stuffing around with my 1600TP and putting a 3-rib in?? What is the deal with the upright conversion? I have had a look around and I can only find how to "buy" a conversion kit. Does it have to be done in a baja? I presume the 2L would be much more powerful and a better conversation point?

Brad, the "Coming soon: do it yourself upright conversion for a Type 4" on offroadvw has been coming for a very long soon. Will it be in the mag? Do I get the info as a member before others?? Any tips??

RightioBye
Cheers
Jamie

Andy - September 10th, 2003 at 12:17 AM

Testing my memory a little here Jamox.
First 2L (Kombi type 4 motor) was ~'75 continued until '79 and in a slightly modified version until ~'83 in the T3 Kombi's.
In stock form, the 2L has more power and torque and is a stronger motor. The trade off is it's a fair bit heavier. In modified form, you can get much more out of both motors.
In a Baja or buggy the upright conversion lets the cooling fan suck cleaner air. The type 4 sucks from the back of the motor where there will be sand/dust/water and hot air in a buggy or baja, which is no good. The upright conversion can be a 'do it yourself' job, but requires a bit of modification to the case and fabricating some parts.
:thumb

Adam_C - September 11th, 2003 at 04:04 PM

got a pic of the back of the 2Lts motor? could a snorkel type thing be adapted to keep the stock cooling?

whats the compatability of the 2ltr box to the irs beetle rear end? can you use all bus cv's and axels etc?

and one last one, the main fram built out of tube with 4mm wall will 20mm wide x 2mm wall square tube be okay for some of the frame and bracing if its braced correctly (using a type of space fram design.... working in triangles) or would i be better to go thicker wall? (i have this shit here and dont want compromise and die :P
cheers
adz

Jamox - September 16th, 2003 at 11:23 PM

I don't mind doing some fabricating, actually I think that is the best fun. DO you have to reinforce the horns or anything for the extra weight? For a "bang it in and off you go" motor, it would be better in your opinion? Aside from the gearbox installation and modification etc.

Rightio
Jamox

Baja Wes - September 17th, 2003 at 08:51 AM

The main problem with using the type 4 cooling system is it's heavy, and it ruins your departure angle.

Converting to an upright cooling system saves a lot of weight, and shortens the motor quite considerably.

Jamox - September 18th, 2003 at 12:53 AM

Ahha! I should have known there would be a reason.

How hard is it to do the conversion? Anything 'specialist' involved?

Righto Bye
Jamie