Following on from blup58 (Brad's) post,

We (Brad and I) have done some more investigation regarding tyre width for beetles (registered in Queensland). To say things are confusing is an understatement!

Firstly, Brad rang the Vehicle Modification Centre who said “Maximum tyre width = 1.3 x the manufacturer’s largest tyre option originally offered for that vehicle”. Therefore, for a 58 beetle that came out with 5.6in tyres (no other options offered) (converts to 142.24mm), the legal limit for tyre width is (1.3x142.24mm) = 184.912mm (I guess a 185mm tyre is close enough). Now this concerned me as I run 205s on the back of my 63 bug (originally came out with 5.6in tyres) thus deeming it illegal according to their guidelines.

Next, I rang Shannon's insurance (who I am insured with) to ask about this issue. Basically they said “if a car has any illegal modifications (eg. tyre width greater than the legal limit for that car), and you are in an accident etc, your claim may be voided”. However, if your modifications are approved by an engineer (blue plated) or the car passes a road worthy inspection (and you have the safety certificate), those modifications are considered to be legal and your claim will not be voided. She did tell me to check this with the engineer/road worthy inspector first though.

Next Brad rang a mechanical engineer who deals with automotive work. He is currently revising the rules and indicated (not confirmed) that he is pushing to have this tyre rule abolished or modified, however it will not take place for another 6 months or so. He did confirm that the 1.3 x largest option for original tyre width rule still applies.

I then rang a different automotive engineer who agreed that there are no exemptions and that the rule still applies (I told him a “hypothetical” situation whereby a “mate” was running 205s on his beetle….he said that this is illegal and the insurance company could potentially void the insurance in the case of an accident). I double checked with him that my “mate’s” car passed the road worthy (safety certificate) with those tyres on it so how can it be illegal. He said that many people doing safety certification turn a blind eye or just don’t know, and at the end of the day if it comes back to them they will just say that “when I inspected it, it had smaller tyres that complied” because they only check a box for tyres on the sheet, they don’t have to document what tyre size was on the car.

Also, the overall outside diameter of the tyre cannot be more than 15mm greater than the original. So if you run 17in wheels (which Brad is hoping to do), you obviously have to run a low profile tyre so the diameter is not more than 15mm greater than the original tyre.

So where does this leave those of us in Qld who are driving beetles (originally fitted with 5.6in tyres) who have tyres larger than 185s?? Basically they are illegal and the insurance could be voided. However, there used to be an old "pamphlet" which had some exclusions for volkswagens so if yours was registered then, it may be excluded!?

Just thought you’d like to know. If anyone else has more info that proves us wrong, please let me know!

There is an old pamphlet, and I do have a copy. It says Volkswagens type 1, 2, and 3 are excempt from the width rules, and may run 7 inch wide rims (with whatever tyres I suppose).

Also with the 1.3x rule, this is applied to the widest optional tyre for that vehicle. The later beetles which are certainly still the same model (type 1) came with 165's. 1.3 x 165 is 215.

I will have to check the wording of the rules, but I think the 1.3 actually was meant to apply to the rim width. There are factory vw rims that are 5.5" wide, so 1.3 x 5.5" is 7.15", which is basically what the old tyre guide was.

Then since baja/buggies are considered offroad vehicles some people have successfully argued that they should use the 1.5 x rule of offroad vehicles, and then be allowed to run 8.25" rims.

I will try to look at the exact wording tonight if I get a chance. But it depends on who you talk to, on how they interpret the rules.

the 1.3 or 1.5 x applied to the rim not the tyres, the tyres are then governed by the rim width.

Hi

I beleive that Queensland and the rest of the country are adopting the NSW rules soon. Forget the multiplying tyre sizes, the NSW rule is, if your car is pre 1973 and weighs between 801 & 1000 kgs you can use 7 inch wide wheels. And tyres to suit these wheels.

If your car was made after 1973 you can only run a wheel 1.5 inches wider, the sports wheel for later bugs is 5.5 inches + 1.5 = 7 inches.

Most people checking cars are not uptodate on all the rules, thats why you get variations.

BTW, my 1972 bug bug weighs 1001 kgs and uses 944 rear suspension, 9 inch wheels were optional on 944s so my bug can legally run 8s & 9s

1302Steve

actually the change that is coming is not to go to NSW rules, but to bring in new australian wide rules. The engineer that approved my car wrote the new rules so I have had a quick read. The new rules will have a clause which states you can go to any size if the vehicle gearbox and suspension etc is suitably modified.

Any idea when these new potential rules maybe coming in guys.

Just an idea would be good as it may be worth my while to just wait until the new rules are adopted before I do anything. But if the rules ar another year or two off then I think I will have to base my decision on current rules.

Thanks for the info guys....I have the new pamphlet and it states

"The maximum tyre width must not be more than 1.3 times wider than the vehicle manufacturer's widest optional tyre"

Does anyone know of a site regarding legal vehicle modifications (QLD)? I asked at QLD Transport and they told me to call the inspector but we don't have a local inspector where I live (and I have hundreds of questions) ie rules on rear vision, ride height etc

If you go to a qld transport office they will be able to give you a pamphlet with details re. vehicle modifications. Not sure if it is on the web, I will try to find out (unless someone else replies here first!). :puke

:thumb that would be good- Qld transport were not very helpful here in Bundy

Mad Manx...here is a link to a fair whack of info (you need Adobe acrobat reader to view it though).

http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/T/TrantOpRUVSSR99_02C_0208...

better late than never! Not sure if this is what you are after though

Alan

I only recently put my car through for my modified vehicle application up here in Darwin. My car runs 16x7.5 f and 16x9.5 r and it wasn't questioned. All they were interested in was the wheel offset for the new wheels as opposed to the original to ensure the track wasn't increaded or decreased by more than 50mm front and rear.

Thanks for that Reub, stupid question but how do they check whether the track has increased/decreased by more than 50mm? Do they have the track measurements from original unmodified beetle?

Cheers
Alan

That legislation site is an eye opener !!
Might have to print out relevent parts in case get pulled over by the police !!
Not that anything doesn't come up to standard of course !!!
Just to do battle !!!!!! :vader

Thanks for the info guys- much appreciated:thumb

Alan, our modifyed vehicle applications in Darwin ask for original information for everything and modifications proposed information for everything, plus additional modifications. I bought the car in Brisbane. I had 2 engineers look at it for me before I went down for a look. 1 of the engineers wasn't interestd in even looking at the car, and when he did look he called me and told me it was a heap of s!&t and to keep my money (a good unbiased report as asked for). The second engineer had no real problem with the car but said it would have to be treated as an individually constructed vehicle, meaning everything would have to omply with the 2002 ADR's. I guess I'm lucky the NT considers it to be a modifyed vehicle. Bring on national guidlines I say.


[Edited on 24-11-2002 by reub-revhead]

Where abouts did you obtain the original information re. track and all the other stuff you need? Is it in the original drivers manual or did you have to source it elsewhere?

Cheers
Alan