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distributors? why is a 009 special?
Rota_Motor - November 9th, 2003 at 02:52 PM

I've tried the search function but nothing.

so.. whats the deal with the million different types of dizzies made for aircooleds, and what makes the bosch 009 dizzy so good?

we have a 009 in the beetle, and the previous owners tuenr was adamant that we dont change the timing, and just check the points gap every so often, I have NFI why though.

Bizarre - November 9th, 2003 at 03:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Rota_Motor
and what makes the bosch 009 dizzy so good?


They are not.

The 009 is a cheap convienent way to replace the stock dizzy.
Quality is poor and because they need no more than 32 degrees max advance the static timing can vary, where as the stock could be set at 7.5 before.

The reason your mechanic said not to touch it is probabally because he set it at 32 deg and if you set it statically at 7.5 it could change the 32 max setting.

The best dizzy is a SVDA - single vacuum dual advance. It has vacuum and centrifugal. Quality is heaps better and has a better curve. BUT they are like $200 US.
A 009 can be bought for $100 Aus.

I dont know if Aus VW's came with SVDA or just single vacuum

009 is also an easy hook up for dual carbs where getting a good vac signal can be diffucult at best.

The best set up is probabally a MSD where you can set your own spring curve be ....... $$$$$$

009s are also prone to suffer from flat spots. Especially when mate to a 34 Pict. A 30 Pict seems to run better.

Go to http://www.aircooled.net  and have a look at the different ones for sale there. Also have a read of their tech articles. There are some dizzy articles there.

Barry

vw54 - November 9th, 2003 at 04:35 PM

Never had any of the above problems with my 3 cars using 009s in all of them.

You must be doing something wrong Barry???

Rota_Motor - November 9th, 2003 at 04:40 PM

ahh thanks for that, but why do you need to replace the standard dizzy at all?

these german things confuse me, most other cars I have seen, holden sixes, ford sixes, mazda 4 bangers, mazda rotaries, have vac and mechanical advance on all dizzys, you dont have fifty different options that all look standard, and they are all piss easy to set up :)

I read a thread somewhere explaining how to use a bosch electronic dizzy from a magna in a bug, thats sounding good right now ;)

helbus - November 9th, 2003 at 06:04 PM

What about standard dizzy with an electronic ignition kit installed?
An Empi or Acufire?

Bizarre - November 9th, 2003 at 06:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by vw54
Never had any of the above problems with my 3 cars using 009s in all of them.

You must be doing something wrong Barry???


I am running them in the bus and bug

Cheap and easy. I like em - but thing can be better using other dizzies

oval TOFU - November 9th, 2003 at 08:32 PM

Quote:

The best dizzy is a SVDA - single vacuum dual advance. It has vacuum and centrifugal. Quality is heaps better and has a better curve.


Is this the same as the dizzy that came with the 36hp engine? they'e both centrifugal and mechcanical arent they? Would if be compadible with a bigger carb - like a 30 or a 34?

Bizarre - November 10th, 2003 at 07:43 AM

Pretty sure the 36 hp motor had a vac only dizzy.

You are getting into the area or retard on dizzy post for #3 area. Changing dizzy in non dog house motors gets tricks

mnsKmobi - November 10th, 2003 at 09:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by vw54
Never had any of the above problems with my 3 cars using 009s in all of them.

You must be doing something wrong Barry???


I read somewhere that the 009 can be better than a stock one just because the stock distributor is worn out.

I discovered on the weekend that my distributor (on a 2l kombi) is stuffed when I tried to set the timing. The vacuum unit "works" but has a leak, the base plate that it moved barely moved and the centrifugal weights were sticking. I'm now trying to work out whether to get a new one, a rebuilt one or fix the existing one.

Aircooled.net have new a vacuum advance unit (which I think is based on a 009) for US$120 and there are a few other rebuilt units around for less. The vacuum advance bit on its own varies from US$40 to >$US$100 depending on the distributor!

68AutoBug - November 10th, 2003 at 11:33 AM

I agree wholeheartedly with Blue74l,
Bosch 009 distributors are really the last dizzy You would want on an air cooled VW. But We all have them.... Yes I have one too.... But I would rather have the original vacuum advance dizzy that came with My engine.... Set up correctly they do the job OK....
I believe that many years ago, someone ?
said "these 009s are the bees knees in Dizzies" and the word spread like rapidfire , that You Had to have a 009, no other dizzy was acceptable..... on an air cooled VW..... Now if only We could find out who the idiot was..... probably from the USA.....
Lee

68AutoBug - November 10th, 2003 at 11:36 AM

Set up correctly, they will work DAVE.
but everyone knows they are Rubbish...
and they are NOT any better than the original.... Lee

MickH - November 10th, 2003 at 11:37 AM

Yep....the same thing happened with the Beta and VHS. Everone had a VHS but Beta was better.:bounce

Rota_Motor - November 10th, 2003 at 01:09 PM

thanks for all the replies guys, anyone else feel free to add your input.

I think we may have got a spare dizzy with the car, not sure what it is though.

and now I know timing needs to be set at around 30 max advance at around 3000 RPM and cant be set properly at idle.

vw54 - November 10th, 2003 at 07:01 PM

Quote:

Set up correctly, they will work DAVE.



Lee you must not be a very good mechanic ???

70AutoStik - November 11th, 2003 at 01:26 AM

By a bizzare coincindence, an article in the latest "Street Machine" mentions exactly why we use a dizzy such as the 009: When we raise compression, increase overlap and tweak our mix, the thing get's bloody hard to start and won't go at lower revs. So we fit a dizzy with less total advance (the 009) and increase our static advance.

The beauty of aircooled.net's "SVDA" is that we get the vacuum "ported" advance back - giving us back our fuel economy (and more) and throttle response (we don't need to get so "bleeding edge" with the static timing.)

matara - November 11th, 2003 at 03:31 AM

I find the 009 more responsive when you floor it whereas the stock vacuum setup is smooth and progressive.

Stanley - November 11th, 2003 at 06:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 68AutoBug

but everyone knows they are Rubbish...
and they are NOT any better than the original.... Lee


I didn't know they were rubbish. Your the first person i've heard say their rubbish
I've heard there are bitter dizzies around
I'm no guru but i've never had a problem.
The fact that "everyone" knows there rubbish is that just heresay or are there facts to back this statement up.
From what i'm aware they have been used for years with no problems but as with technology advances there is always something better.
Does this mean we bag earlier technology.

Craig Torrens - November 11th, 2003 at 07:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by vw54
Never had any of the above problems with my 3 cars using 009s in all of them.

You must be doing something wrong Barry???



I with you on this one Dave !

Firstly you should never go past 29 1/2 deg advance, so Barry your 32 deg is wrong ! What will happen (on a performance motor) is that it will stop reving past 5200rpm, it feels like you have a potato up your exhaust.

Lee, so how do you run a Standard dizzy with twin webbers ??? and how does the advance curve compare to the 009 ?

As for flat spots caused by a 009 when fitted to a standard motor, 9 out of ten times this occurs due to the fact that the carby has been tune to the "old" dizzy. Everyone then blames the new dizzy because it is showing how "out" the carby has been.

I run 009's on all my cars, not because of the price , but because I have had zero problems with them. And yes I rev past 7500rpm every gear change.

Too many wives tails regarding (new)009's:(

Bizarre - November 11th, 2003 at 07:41 AM

Craig

Where did you get 29.5 degrees from

From ALL the reading i have done 32 degrees is the number.

Craig Torrens - November 11th, 2003 at 08:05 AM

Firstly from Stan Pobjoy, then through experience.

A new 009 has 22 deg advance, set at 7 1/2 static will give you 29 1/2 deg max advance. AND YES I EXPECT PEOPLE TO DISAGREE ABOUT STATIC TIMING. SO SET USING A LIGHT AT 29 1/2 Deg !!
:thumb

But I'm sure many have their opinions! But then I run Toyota points and a standard coil, and everyone says that's not possible either !:D

Bizarre - November 11th, 2003 at 08:16 AM

Not arguing here just a piece in MY puzzle

I have always heard you set the 009 statically at 10 degrees.
With 22 degrees advance that is obviously where the 32 degrees came from

Craig Torrens - November 11th, 2003 at 11:40 AM

7 1/2 deg BTDC static, when motor is cold. (as long as you know you have 22 deg advance). Well it is on my motor :D

Stanley - November 11th, 2003 at 12:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Craig Torrens
But I'm sure many have their opinions! But then I run Toyota points and a standard coil, and everyone says that's not possible either !:D


Why Toyota points ?

VWCOOL - November 11th, 2003 at 01:21 PM

Don't you mean Torana... Has a stronger spring to cope with 8000+rpm
As some have mentioned above, the 009 has a more aggressive advance curve than stock. It's a good performance dizzy - when you set it up right

Craig Torrens - November 11th, 2003 at 02:40 PM

The Toyota points I use have a stronger spring, like the Torana XU1 points. This stops any points bounce at high revs.:thumb

mnsKmobi - November 11th, 2003 at 02:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Craig Torrens
The Toyota points I use have a stronger spring, like the Torana XU1 points. This stops any points bounce at high revs.:thumb


Or get rid of the points - no points bounce at all!:bounce:bounce:bounce

Craig Torrens - November 11th, 2003 at 03:07 PM

you could, then you loose the retard on no 3cyl.

Rota_Motor - November 11th, 2003 at 03:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Craig Torrens
you could, then you loose the retard on no 3cyl.


whoa, they retard no.3 ?? surely youre making this up as you go along...

vw54 - November 11th, 2003 at 03:23 PM

Nope hes NOT making it up as he goes along Too many ears listening to OLD Wives tales.

Craig Torrens - November 11th, 2003 at 04:23 PM

Rota Motor, like your sig line says "....................,but I'm here to learn about Vw's"

Well you've just learnt something !:D




Thanks Dave :thumb