For those that have read the fraser island post, you will know I broke my clutch plate on the island, and drove about 300km's home with no clutch (it was stuck engaged).

For those that didn't read it, here are a couple of pics.





So the stock clutch didn't stand up to the punishment. Was it just a one-off poor quality clutch plate, who knows?

Does anyone know if someone makes high quality high HP clutch plates?

High torque pressure plates are well known, but I haven't heard of much in the way of clutches...

Guessing you dont want to go to a button or puck style clutch disc ? as probably not flash for an offroader.

Have you considered taking the clutch plate to a clutch specialist and getting it relined ? can they do that ?

I should think that there will be something out there to suit.....

Hi Wes...good to see you made it home safely, in pieces....I have had the same problems over the years with different cars.....have opted for the Feramic plate in my Manx as I did for my Celica when I used to race...Never had a problem with them (4 puc)Mick motors should be able to sort you out or visit http://www.Chirco.com.  Good luck!!!:bounce ps. wouldn't have had a problem if you had stayed Aircooled!!!!!(kidding).......................

I would prefer to stay away from the puck clutches as I want it to remain smooth. How smooth was yours Mick?

Maybe I could get it relined, but I think it managed to bend the metal part of the plate too :o

I've heard Sherman has HD clutches, I will see what his looks like.

Very smooth....got a FERAMIC one in the Manx with the springs. The one on the steroid is a solid centre CERAMIC and it bites like a bitch....not that there is anything wrong with that, just file the teeth down first.........found that the standard clutches slipped badly with the stock pressure plate on the manx. Did not want to change the pressure plate to a Kennedy so opted for the feramic. No complaints.

check out our old clutch!

A mate done the same to the clutch in his kombi on moreton., he hade one specially made using an asbestos lining on the clutch plate and a very high pressure spring in the pressure plate from a late porsche. The porsche spring fitted into a kombi clutch plate housing - apparently the rivets lined right up. His pedal is very heavy now though. Will find out who did all this and let u know

A question for you Wes,
I'm guessing you don't do much clutch slipping with the torque of the V6???

So is the breakage due purely due to torque on a fully engauged clutch, or is it slipping under power?
Doesn't appear to have overheated (as in not slipping under power). If that's the case a different material may be all it needs as the spring & flywheel is fine??

Just a thought
:thumb

Wes pop down to direct clutch and have them make you a four puck with a sprun center, the best of both worlds they have made me like 5 custom clutches over the years for differebt cars and all have been great.

I'm guessing it died from power shifting into 2nd. The mazda pressure plate that I am using is quite strong and the clutch doesn't really slip at all. So I have the HD pressure plate, I just need a clutch plate to match.

Ben, I'm not clear what you meant, is the T3 clutch plate a HD item, or the same as the normal kombi. If it's the same then it is what I have already broken.

I don't know about going the 4 puck item, I don't need more torque capacity, I just need friction material that won't rip (kinda the same thing I know). Where abouts is direct clutch?

4 Bimbil street Albion, 38622680
steve down there has a 750hp rx3 that goes forwards in a hurry On a tangent almost all the performance clutches in Australia are made by them and re baged by the various go fast shops. Anyway they will have the answer if you have the $$$

Sherman has Fichtel and sachs 2800 lb (whatever; I recall about 60% stronger than standard kombi, no slip no grab)clutch and pressure plate

I rang direct clutch, they reckon the best option is to just bond and rivet a new lining on the VW clutch plate (the stock one is just riveted). They say the bonding will not come apart and I won't have the problem I had.

The only possible side effect is 10% of bonded clutches get a slight clutch shudder on take off, because they take out the wave in the metal plate between the friction linings. I don't think this will be much of an issue.

So I think this sounds like the best option, all for the grand total of $80.

Gotta be happy with that!!!:bounce:bounce:party

Hi

I used a 228 Kombi clutch in my bug and i slipped it before the turbo was fitted. I spoke to RaceClutch (hes an VW racer) in Brizzy and he reckons 228s are useless to modify so I took his advice and went back to 215mm, he built me a great clutch for my bug. Ask him what he thinks of Kennedy clutches!

1302Steve

After a bit of searching a few people seem to agree with the VW guru Gene Berg who said "What about the stock fabric type lining? - For many applications this is fine, however when high RPM is achieved you often blow this lining apart at the rivets".

So people are telling me the centrifugal forces are ripping the clutch plate apart, not so much the HP tearing it apart. I guess it wasn't designed to be doing almost 8,000rpm. Interesting.

Steve, maybe the guy at raceclutch was more referring to the 228mm pressure plate being useless and not worth modifying. If this is the case then it doesn't apply to me as I am not using the 228mm pressure plate. I have heaps of clamping pressure and not slipping problems.

It's just the friction material ripping off is a slight problem. I am trying to ring race clutch for a second opinion, but their phone is continually engaged or something strange....

oh, and I don't want more torque capacity, as I want the clutch to be the weakest link to prevent gearbox damage. But I want it to be the weakest link in a slipping kinda way not an exploding kinda way

I spoke to race clutch, he seems to know what he is on about. I am going to see him tomorrow to get his opinion. He doesn't seem to like the bonded and riveted technique, but I haven't really figured out what technique he does like yet.

Will find out tomorrow I guess.

well I went and spoke to Jim from race clutch. He definitely knows his stuff, and I was there for 2 hours talking!

He doesn't like the bond and rivet method, and thinks it makes the clutch harsh and vibrate.

He had two options, modify a 944 clutch to suit, but still no gaurantee it won't explode. Machine my pressure plate and a couple of other things, all for around $275.

Other option was to send down south to have linings bonded and riveted to metal backing plates, and then riveted to the vw clutch disc. Shouldn't explode but maybe take 1 month or more and cost $375.

So I think I will investigate the HD clutches on the market.

After conducting a post mortem with Jim, it was decided that the clutch broke apart from too high a revs, and not due to HP. It had many stress cracks where it had obviously been starting to break for some time.

ok, so my search for info has continued. Sachs calls the max speed of the clutch the burst speed. Sachs has this to say on their website...

Hi Wes

The 2.1 WBX max revs are 6,250 rpm, even better.

1302Steve

Perhaps you were just "unlucky" with the original clutch and got a dud? If it was me I would be going for a name brand like the ones you suggested - would prefer the Luk one. Is it possible that the old clutch could have failed prematurely due to being wet/flogged etc on previous trips? You must admit it has probably had a hard life,although a short one! Still like the 4 puk feramic though......good luck:bounce

Wes I run a standard Vw clutch plate with a 1700lb kennedy. I know your car puts out a lot more horsepower, but if it is rev related , why haven't I had problems?
Are you sure it wasn't just a faulty part ?

Not that I know much about clutches:jesus

Wes after seeing your pictures on shoptalk I think you should first of all fix the PP surface then stick in any old clutch and then have the whole lot (flywheel, clutch, PP) dynamically balanced. At least this way you are starting with a fresh slate allowing you to eliminate other possible weakness.

Quote:

Originally posted by 555bug Wes after seeing your pictures on shoptalk I think you should first of all fix the PP surface then stick in any old clutch and then have the whole lot (flywheel, clutch, PP) dynamically balanced. At least this way you are starting with a fresh slate allowing you to eliminate other possible weakness.

RE REVS: Most hillclimbs are approx 7500rpm gearchanges, 8k if I'm being stupid or I need to make a corner without changing up (not that often)
It is safe to say over 7000 every change.

I didn't think about your bigger dia plate though !:jesus

ok, so my plan is in action.

I have dropped my pressure plate and flywheel down to "direct clutch" to have the pressure plate machined flat, and the assembly dynamically balanced.

I bought a new genuine 228mm sachs clutch plate. The difference between it and my old one is quite noticable.

The old one has 6 springs the same size, a course rough looking lining, and brass looking solid rivets (apparently only relines normally have them).

The sachs has at least 3 different spring sizes designed to absorb various frequenct vibrations and makes the driveline smoother and quieter at idle and on the move. It also has a lining of material that is finer and neater, similar in appearance to the original mazda clutch. If looks are anything to go by, it should last heaps better than the old one

[img]http://www.offroadvw.net/bajawes/images/sach and broken.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.offroadvw.net/bajawes/images/sachs clutch plate.jpg[/img]

:thumb

:thumb:bounce

Can I ask where you bought it and how much you paid?

$156 from Import Advantage. I am in the VW drivers club so I basically get trade price at import advantage :thumb

I think the original no name clutch cost about $66 :o, you get what your pay for I suppose.