Ladies and gents,

I have seen an alarming trend on my motor recently (mostly alarming becuase it has happened twice, and only by pure chance have I been close enough to home to get a tow).

First thing that happened was that the spring washer on the inlet rocker to #3 (at the back on the left) cylinder broke. I only recovered half of it - I'm hoping (and praying) that the other half has washed down to my deep sump and will happily stay there until my next rebuild (hopefully in the distant future). I picked this up at a service, and simply replaced the spring washer with a spare from a spare set of rocker gear I have.

Second, last night at about 1am, it broke the retaining clip on the inlet rocker to #3 cylinder (scared me - thought I had dropped a valve). I will replace this one tonight, but in the meantime I'm curious to know if I should be chasing some stronger rocker gear and shafts ?

The motor is an 1835 (yeah I know, blowby and all ), only about 10 or 11,000kms old. Its got 044 (I think) heads with larger, stainless valves and high strength single springs. We set compression at 8.5 :1 (daily driver in WA). Its running a HSC #2 cam (a reground stock cam). Its also got a counterweighted crank, fully balanced bottom end, twin kadrons. I dont run it past 6000rpm, and its only seen that four or five times - theres not point with the cam / carby combination its got it stops pulling at 5200 or so.

The rocker gear is bog stock 2nd hand standard. I service it myself and tappet clearances are set to 6 thou.

Is 5500 - 6000rpm too much for standard rocker gear ?

Is this a known problem ?

If so, what are my options to get some stronger gear in there that wont break ?

Thanks in advance for all of your help !

Is your rocker geometry all ok??

Are you getting valve bind??

There was someone with the Ureka(sp?) that was busting valve springs a couple of months ago.
Think his problem was springs in upside down??

How do I check the geometry ? What should it be ?

I had thought that it was something I didnt have to worry about, seeing as I dont have ratio rockers and they are stock size valves.

I'm definetely not getting spring bind.

Yeah, I read that post - however I'm breaking the spring washers and retaining clips that hold the rockers in place on the shaft.

Try this link dude http://1800vw.bizhosting.com/solid_rocker_shaft.html  and http://1800vw.bizhosting.com/qa_rockerslap.htm  dunno if it applies to you :thumb

So it sounds like I am up to change over to solid bolt up rocker shafts, yes ?

Anyone know what these are worth in Australia, and a reputable supplier ?

Rocker geometry really only comes into it when you are not getting even movement of the rocker.
This can be caused by
* increased lift
*the heads have been really fly cut and are sitting further into the head

"Proper length ensures that at "half lift" the rocker arm is pushing the valve straight in. If "rocker geometry" is off, the valve will be pushed up or down, and this results in valve guide wear. " - thank you AC.net

The link Lug posted seems to be on the money though

http://www.aircooled.net/new-bin/viewproductdetail.php?keyword2=ECV0016&c...

$40 US

I guess you are talking $100 Aus
Any of the sponsors "should" carry them

I guess thats not bad - at least it shouldnt destroy the bank account to keep this thing reliable. Although I should be putting new rockers on the new shaft shouldnt I ?

Dont "think" so

It is more a wasker / side movement thing.
Dont think it is a "rocker" thing not working.

I wouldn't just put on new rockers. If ur breaking clips they MUST be a reason for it. I would check geo etc first.

With regards to new rockers, i simply had mine tapped on the ends for bolts and then cut alum tube as a spacer for the middle. alot cheaper than new rockers. Just use shims to set the rockers both sideways and also shims to det the height of the shaft (geometery).

Sorry guys - I think you misunderstood why I was suggesting to put new rockers on the new shafts - I was more thinking about the old worn rockers possibly wearing the new shafts out faster.

BiX - I like your idea. And the joy of this one is that I can actually get it done on the cheap as we have a big machine shop at work and I can squeeze in a couple of foreigners

I dont think I will use aluminium for the spacers though. I will probably use a plain carbon steel so that the spacers expand at an identical rate to the rocker shaft, thus ensuring the rocker sideplay doesnt alter as the temp increases.

Mind if I ask where you ended up getting the shim washers from to set the side play of the rockers ?

How long did you make your spacers ?

Thanks for the idea !!

Now just to get a cheap 2nd hand pair of rocker shafts and start measuring......

got the spacers from leons motor's, but any vw or even mechanic would carry them i assume. I measured the distance between the rockers and then cut to length.

FIXED. Well, back to original at any rate, so I am back on the road.

Unfortunately, I found out that the wavy washer on #3 inlet rocker had also broken, and as I couldnt find it in the rocker cover, I can only assume that it has migrated to the sump where it can live with the other half a washer that went down there last time this happened !!!!:cry:cry:cry

I hope they dont cause any trouble....

In the mean time I have decided to lower my self imposed rev limiter (controlled by right foot ) to about 4800 instead of 6000 where I had it before. I will also progress along the track of trying to find some decent rocker gear and shafts. While I'm at it I might as well go to swivel foot adjusters and 1.25 ratio rockers as well. I guess we will see what turns up.....

find yourself some good originals, just set them up right. Obviously Stan set mine up, ,they're original and have no probs with the revs. Give him a call to find out what he does !(does this with any motor that has higher valve spring loading) you will be suprised how simple it is to fix

So Stan uses standard rocker shafts and rockers on his steroids motors then ?

I'll have to call him. I dont suppose you know if he still uses the spring washers ? I have had advice just to shim and utilise the standard retaining clips.

You've already said your motor runs to 7500 on up shifts....... I've never had mine past 6200rpm..... hmmmm.

Is there any way to measure the geometry of the rocker or is it just by eye ?

I checked to ensure the adjuster was hitting the valve stem just off center and all of them are. I dont have any shims under the pedestals - is this normal for standard length pushrods and stock rockers ?

Doug, pobjoy motors use standard shafts and rockers, this includes base 1916, steroids 1916, strokers, hillclimb etc etc ..

You would need to call him to discuss what he does :thumbut

Sorry I can't help, at least he can tell you what to do without spending the $$

So how did you go with this problem Doug, all fixed ?

Hello,

I think the same thing has been happening to my engine. And the mechanic said that its because I was using super heavy duty (racing) springs. They were simply too strong for my setup.

Are you using heavy duty springs?

Sorry, I only read this forum from work - can be hard to read everything all at once.

I've still only got the standard gear on the motor, limiting myself to about 4750rpm while its like this.

I decided to make a set of bolt up shafts, mainly because I am cheap and think they are a more solid solution. Only problem is that I'm having the machine work done at work by a mate as a foreigner, so it has to fit in with all the real work. Hopefully should have the shafts and spacers done in a week or two, then I can get them back on the engine.

Does anyone know of anywhere that carries the shims in different thicknesses ? All the standard shims are 40 thou (1mm) thick. To all me to shim it to the right clearance, I'll need different thicknesses.

I know Aircooled.net and cb performance sells them in the states, but I'd rather not have to get stugg from the states if I can source them locally....

Any ideas people ?

Thanks or the interest.

Cheers,

Doug

I'm afraid, unless you're made of money, you should get a solid rocker shaft kit from the states...

This is not a reflection on anyone in Oz; we simply don't have the market to bring prices down low enough. If you don't think you can follow the instructions provided [no offence, but you'd have to be so thick we'd wonder what you're doing driving a VW,] there are some really good Oz mechanics that'll do it for you: But they're in business to make a living (surprise, surprise,) and it takes a while.

Aircooled.net cost a little more (but I've yet to have a quality problem with them - pretty rare for 'mericans,) but they will use Post (which allows up to AU$999 before tax and duty apply - not relevant if the total is below AU$250,) and are rather helpful with their instruction.
- I hope no-one considers this blasphemous, but they're almost the modern "Berg."

If you were to only require this item, CBPerformance.com might be a lot cheaper, and most of their stuff is OK, but their product may turn out to be "Empi" (Empi ceased to exist more than 30 years ago; it's likely to be cheap Taiwanese cr@& under that name.)

As for CIP1.com and their ilk: Dream about the cheap prices you see in the mags, their product is the worst chinese and taiwanese rubbish, and they consider three months to be a good delivery time at airmail rates. (Don't listen to the guys who got lucky - there's 10 of us real people, at least, to each of them.) Oh, and don't expect "Customer Support" from such...

Maybe I've been misunderstood - I'm MAKING a set of bolt up shafts (its not rocket science, as BiX said), and having the machine work done for free at work.

All I was chasing was the different thickness washers to set the side play of the rockers. I've no problem with the price of Aircooled.net or CB performance ($11 US for a full set of 8 of 3 different thicknesses each (ie 24 in total)), just that I was hoping to find somewhere local to get them from so I didnt have to wait too long.

I cant see any reason why these home made ones shouldnt work as well as any of the aftermarket ones. When I get them finished, I will post pictures and drawings of what I've done, so that if anyone wanted to make their own they can.

Time will tell.

Cheers,

Doug

By the way, I couldnt find anyone in Perth that stocked solid rocker kits ! Though I'm sure they are easy to get in the east.....

Did you phone Stan ?

May save some work. Just a thought .

I tried to find his number, but couldnt.

At any rate, I have a nice little project now to keep me occupied for a while, so I think I will go through with it.

Ta for all the advice - now I am well informed

maybe you could make and sell them :o

Ah, if you're making them, I'll try to find the time to measure mine up and post you the figures. But you'd be better off making them like the old Berg ones, which had a tubular spacer in the middle, instead of a wider part of the shaft - it's a lot easier to set up accurately that way.

No, I don't need them, my setup as per Stan has no probs :thumb

Just though if you were doing one, might as well do 10

Quote:

Originally posted by Doug Sweetman I tried to find his number, but couldnt. At any rate, I have a nice little project now to keep me occupied for a while, so I think I will go through with it. Ta for all the advice - now I am well informed

ps I didnt try too hard

I'm sure the standard set ups would work alot better with brand new spring washers and retainers. After pulling another set of 2nd hand rockers apart its incredible the difference in wear you see on the components.

I'll see how the ones I'm making now turn out. They do have the tubular spacer in the middle, all I need to find now is a source of shims in the right size to set side play.

70AutoStik - do you loktite your end bolts ? and what side play do you set them up to ?

Once I've got them on the car I'll post drawings of the set up for whoever wants to copy them.