in a few weeks i should be getting a Type 4 engine and instead of forking out for the upright kit i have been thinking of keeping it as a flat engine......it will look kinda stupid but that doesnt really matter. a mate up the road said he ran a type 4 in a buggie as a flat engine for years and it was fine it just looked stupid. by the way the reason behind this is to save the money that the kit would cost. as i dont have alot of dough. whats everyones opinions?

can't think of any reason why not. but then i'm not very familiar with type4 engines.

Is it for the baja?

Shouldn't have too many problems ... the main difference being the fan etc at the back of the engine - wouldn't fit it in a normal engine bay very easily.

some one on here was going to look into making fan housing's out of f/glass, also running boards I think. it was some time ago now but maybe...........

it is for a baja. ive got enough room in my cage for it and vince up the road has a fan for me.

I'm talking about something like this....
http://www.fatperformance.com/type4.htm 

apart from being ugly type 4 are heavy right at the back (not that good in a Baja)

will i have problems with handlng?

braking on the road, I think not 100% but look in to it before you do it

ill send buggybrad a U2U.

I looked at doing this with the type 3 motor I just put in my baja. I changed to upright tinware for the following reasons:

I'd have to modify my baja cage and exhaust
I was concerned with high speed cruising as the air would not flow into the fan housing as the back of the car is a low pressure area, so I was worried about overheating. some simple ducting would solve this however.
The fan is pretty low so creek crossings and beach sand may be a problem.


while weight in the back promotes understeer and braking problems, it is better for traction offroad.

I think you need to decide which compromise to take for where you drive it.

yeah its my daily driver so i drive on the road .....but when its finished i will be taking it offroad a fair bit.i hadnt even thought of heating problems but thats a valid point. i shouldnt have to modify my cage though because it has the room i will however have to get a new exhaust

how much does a type 4 engine wiegh?

mm it will work but you need to move the muffler out to the sides as it will over heat with stock one on it.

With a flat motor they draw cooling air from the rear. Problem with this in a baja and buggy is that the air comes straight in over the muffler. By fitting twin mufflers you remove the heating problem and it will be fine.

The reason you get away with a flat motor in a bus / type 3 is cause the engine bay is sealed so the hot air doesn't get pulled into the fan. For proof pull the bellows of a type 3 and watch it cook. Same same with the kombi and the engine bay seal.

Flat engines also hang out further and are bloody heavy. You will not notice any real handling difference with the Type 4 engine as your baja probably already drives like most baja's which is badly ( :party )

Apart from the above issues it will all be fine, more power than a type 1 and cheap as piss to slap in. You will need an 1800 or smaller flywheel to fit your swing axle box. Also a bush to locate the input shaft ( output shaft from gearbox)

Type 4 upright - 118 kg dressed
Type 1 Upright 92 kg dresses
Ej22 Dressed - 119 kg

vince a mate from up the road whos been into buggies since the 70's will be helping me do the conversion......hes done heaps of stuff like this and knows his shit. i was thinking i could keep my twin hot dog mufflers and just get some new extractors for the kombi heads would this work?

yeah that is fine. Just make sure they are out to the side and no where near the fan.

Heres my bit dude there dont handle any different that you will notice however mine is big and i dont go belting around corners so you may, As for leaving them flat you could but basicaly what brad said anyway you could do what i did and make the kit cause if you want to by the kit you will be poor and i dont like the way there done i did mine different but i bought the pulley and stand they are around $250 and the exhaust just see if you can find some heater boxes with nothing on them and just pipes and if you can bend them up on a 45 and mount a standard perry, thunder bird or the like extractors on and get the muffler and bend the pipe around so that the whole system is nice and neat in the middle this is if your going upright, You will be happy with the performance lots of easy grunt come to the buggy bash ill be there and so will my mate with his type 4 baja we will be happy to point you the right way

did u make the kit out of some type 1 tinware or something?........cause i have 1 set of super bug tinware and 1 set of 1600 tinware in my baja now with the 1600 sp and then i will have the kombi tinware. if someone wants to make me an upright kit for some dough let me know. ive heard u can use the stock type 1 genny stand and genny. upright would be much prefered its just the cost of the kit......i dont have 700 bucks for a kit.

I would tell you but i would be here writing for a week so have a look at this and think of doing that with the oil cooler were they live insted of up in the fan housing and sorry in cant do the link thing
http://aircooledtech.com/type4_upright_conversion/finished_pictures/ 

s'pose you wanna see some pics of one?
o.k. then.

another

last one

Just to tease you's :beer:beer

so thats how it would look flat?.......oh and by the way. nice purple baja.............mine doesnt quite look that good:P

[Edited on 16-9-2004 by Anthiron]

ok so if i leave it flat what else am i going to need parts wise. and what will i need to modify to get it in and fuctioning well?

Get Joe Cali's book.

You will need a 210mm or 215mm 1800 flywheel, you will need to grind out your bell housing to 12v if you havent you will need a bush to go in your flywheel to hold the input shaft and make the cage go around the motor if i think of anything else will let you no

i knew about clearencing the bellhousing...thats ok vince can do that for me.......an 1800 flywheel......ill ask him if hes got one. ......and a fuel pump is no dramas ill get one out of out parts subie. and the cage should already have enough room in it......

thanks for the info

Nick

no offence man, but for that extra weight, you may as well put an EJ motor or one of wes' V6s in. The power benefit is 100% better and type 4s are very expensive to rebuild.

BTW, the car will want to understeer with all that weight in the back. It probably won't be quite as bad as my buggy, but it will be hard to tune out of it.

[Edited on 18-9-2004 by pete wood]