Some food for thought.

Petrol prices have the power to wreck the Aussie 2nd car. Mine is a VW Baja and the wife likes her forester too much for it to sit in the drive way unregistered.

I recieved the below Email from Lee a couple of days ago. Even owning two boxer engines and living 3 blocks from work and 5 from the shopping centre and the boys school the fuel and cost of living means we have only the Subaru Forester registered and no foreseeable opportunity to register the Baja. The costs are just too high.

I've sent this to ten people but frankly I lie in hope of fuel prices coming down. While they go up the Goverment stands to make more in Tax so revenue into the coffers will make interest rates a dwarf by comparison.

Have your say. I join in till the Boxheads wreck the point of the thread.

The Bronze.

----------------------------------Email Attachment ------------------------

From: Ian Granland via Lee

Petrol prices - worth thinking about!


I called the number on the bottom of the email, and it is for real. This initiative does come from Barry Minster, worth calling and chatting to him if you need reassurance.

Apparently we are going to hit close to $1.35 a litre by the winter. If this happens the prices will flow on down to the price of every thing we buy! Want petrol prices to come down? We need to take some intelligent, united action. Philip Hollsworth, offered this good idea.

This makes MUCH MORE SENSE than the "don't buy petrol on a certain "day" campaign that was going around last April or May! The oil companies just laughed at that because they knew we wouldn't continue to "hurt ourselves" by refusing to buy petrol. It was more of an inconvenience to us than it was a problem for them. BUT, whoever thought of this idea, has come up with a plan that can really work.

Now that the oil companies and the OPEC nations have conditioned us to think that the cost of a litre is CHEAP at .89 / .95 cents, we need to
take aggressive action to teach them that BUYERS control the marketplace not sellers. With the price of petrol going up more each day, we consumers need to take action. The only way we are going to see the price of petrol come down is if we hit someone in the pocket by not purchasing their
Petrol!

And we can do that WITHOUT hurting ourselves.

Here's the idea:

For the rest of this year, DON'T purchase ANY petrol from the two biggest oil companies (which now are: BP and Mobil). If they are not selling any petrol, they will be inclined to reduce their prices. If they reduce their prices, the other companies will have to follow suit. But to have an impact, we need to reach literally millions of BP petrol buyers. It's really simple to do!!

Now, don't wimp out on me at this point...keep reading and I'll explain how simple it is to reach millions of people!! I am sending this note to a lot of people. If each of you send it to at least ten more (30 x 10 = 300) ...and those 300 send it to at least ten more (300 x 10 = 3,000)...
and so on, by the time the message reaches the sixth generation of people, we will have reached over THREE MILLION consumers!

Again, all you have to do is send this to 10 people. That's all. (and not buy at BP and Mobil) How long would all that take? If each of us sends this email out to ten more people within one day of receipt, all 300 MILLION people could conceivably be contacted within the next 8 days!!! I'll bet you didn't think you and I had that much potential, did you! Acting together we can make a difference. If this makes sense to you, please pass this message on.

PLEASE HOLD OUT UNTIL THEY LOWER THEIR PRICES TO THE 80 cents a LITRE RANGE.

It's easy to make this happen. Just forward this email, and buy your petrol at Shell, Caltex, GAS. or Gull Outlets and drive past BP and MOBIL Stations.

Barry Minster State President Ex Service, Service & Veterans Party


13 Ermington Place Kew 3101

Telephone: 03 9816 9713 http://www.esvp.asn.au 

[Edited on 22-4-2005 by The_Bronze.]

I understand the sentiment, and it should be widely known that I work for a BP oil refinery, so maybe my views are a little skew.

But I dont see how not buying petrol at BP servo's is going to affect the oil price ? With oil at US $57 / BBL thats oil at about 70c AUS PER LITRE. Surely people cant expect us to be able to explore, produce, freight it halfway round the world, run it through up to 5 different processes in the refinery, freight to terminal, freight to servo and then let the servo's make about 1c per liter all within 15 - 20c per liter ?

Its an unfortunate fact of life that petrol is now the price it is. Its not a conspiracy between oil companies, or a way for the government to bleed us all dry (although OPEC certainly shouldnt be praised for saying they want to keep oil at $50 for the forseeable future). It is the fault of insurance companies, skittish investors, terrorists (check the oil price history against major terrorist attacks someday) that oil has doubled its price in approx 2 years.

Its a very complex argument as to how the price is set. I'm quite happy to talk about it further via u2u or email, but I'm not keen to start another slanging match here. Obviously the oil companies are responsible for the end retail price in some instances, but the three major influences on the price of petrol are the price of crude oil, the US / AUS exchange rate and the amount of tax / excise that the government chooses to put on it.

hey if your baja is old enough how about putting it on club rego..
up here in qld its not very expensive to do at all n you can 'test' drive it within 15kms from regod add. n go on club runs etc..
a cheaper way to have a fave ride out on da road!

Not wanting to rain on anyones parade, but in many cities around Oz there's only a limited number of refineries, so here in brissy where there's only two, they supply petrol to all the rest (well many others anyway). So you stop buying BP fuel from a BP shop, but you buy it from another outlet who get there fuel from BP. So who are we hurting? BP franchise owners?? Just asking the question.
Next is our good old mates the pollies. They tack on their excises, taxes and god knows what else. They still get their revenue regardless who we buy from. Their portion is a significant part of the cost.

Not that I like to pay high prices for fuel, and I love my old VW's as much as the next guy/gal, but it's way over due we start to use other fuels than oil.

Now where are the key's to the fasty, time for another spin around the block.......
:blah

not only refineries make fuel..
a lot of tanker ships deliver to our shores already pre mixed for delivery to the servo..
just a bit more useless info.. :blah

Some good points raised. And no errant crap which is a change from what I've read recently.

Something I find hard to fathom is the fact that Diesel is as expensive as petrol and yet it is a byproduct. The refining process is much simpler.

Me personally I buy my fuel from Mobil. Mainly because I use Mobil 1 in the Subaru and Baja and prefer to keep everything in the one basket when it comes to vehicle products. I refuse to buy from the WW+ and Bogas fuel stop simply because they import tanker the fuel in and sold as is and it is often not rerefined before sale. So you cop the bottom end of a bowser before the tanker comes in and your more likely to end up with a tank of crap. I'm sure the Baja could take it but the foresters injection is less tolerant.

I'm not saying this email would work but it an interesting concept. Nothing personal Doug.

Bronze.

I suspect that email is a chain letter maybe?? That went around a while ago.

Either way compared to countries around the world our petrol is cheap, and our car laws are lax (ever been to singapore?).

NAh thats cool Bronze, but its funny - I've seen that email twice before (once about 8 months ago) and both times its been targeted at BP - coincidentally, we are only #2 in the world - Exxon / Esso / Mobil are actually far larger than we are.

Diesel is an anomaly - its pricing is actually influenced by the North American / European winter season demand, which flows back to Australian prices via the Singapore spot price, which is used as the market parity comparator. About 50% of Diesel in Aus is straight run (ie straight off of the distillation column, very easy to refine). The other 50% has too much residual sulphur in it to meet fuel specs (soon to be much tighter), hence needs to go through a process called 'Hydrogen desulphurisation', or hydrofining as the yanks call it. That does add a bit to the cost, but ultimately currently we are paying heaps more for diesel because its been cold in the northern hemisphere and that has increased their demand for it.

Australia is about 80% self sufficient in fuels - we do import a reasonable amount (less so in places like southern WA, NSW and southern QLD where the indiginous refineries can cover demand), but mostly only where its outside our economical freight range (ie where its cheaper to freight it from Singapore or malaysia than from Perth or Brisbane).

There are 7 operating refineries in Australia (8 if you count Eromanga, but thats 3 semi trailers in the middle of nowhere and only runs 1500BBL / day) - BP Kwinana (WA) and Bulwer Island (QLD), Shell Clyde (NSW) and Geelong (VIC), Mobil Altona (VIC) (now that Mobil Port Stanvac in Adelaide has closed down), and Caltex Lytton (QLD) and Kurnell (NSW).

still too cheap for some

diesel will never retrace its steps to a pricepoint relative to its refining costs simply because of our elected heads in their wisdom gave heavy transport the 17.5c/l fuel rebate and need to make up as much as possible the rebate costs by the use of the higher prices, so all the people who bought diesel cars and 4x4s are basically subsidising the rebate system for heavy transport

Don't even get me started on the fact there is a fuel excise and then we pay GST on top of that. GST is a goods and services tax, since when has excise (also known as a duty or tax) become goods or services?

Yeah Im with you Helbus, whats the deal?
Rob...

I suggest we take over the world and control everything. That'll work.

Hmm, I think not guys. It's already in a mess.

Thanks Doug (and others) for your enlightenment. It definately helps to have someone in the know, or at least close to it. I feel fuel wise we are just a blip on the map of countries using fuel and with with what you are saying it's globally, politically and economically geared to continually increase.

Conversatons today centered around the crude barrel price hitting $100 before the year is out. I don't know if there is any truth in that but I do know that my salary increases arn't climbing as fast as my cost of living.

The Historic Rego is an option that I am going to investigate for sure. Apart from some cosmetics the Baja is near roadworthy but it's just cheaper to sit on the swing chair and stare at it. Start it up now and then and enjoy a quite port at sunset.

Thanks for the discussion guys.

Bronze.

At the place where I was living for the last 9 months (Desert WA) we were paying $1.70 per ltr, now (at Gove NT) paying $1.39 ltr so currently feel like I'm on a winner.
Cheers, Ian.

Its just crazy. God knows whats happening to the fuel prices. Goes up here, and down over there. I don't think anyone has a clue, NOT EVEN THE OIL COMPANIES.

Maybe its just me and my confusion. Time to invest in a flintstones mobile. THE POWER OF THE FEET!!!

Low levels of ehtanol are good initiative as it is made from sugar cane and is a renewable source of fuel. Although there is a lot of stigma about it, I've read various aticles saying low levels (maybe 10-15%) are safe for engines. It's also much better for the environment than traditional fossil fuels.
Does anybody know how much you'll be looking at for an LPG conversion these days? That's seeming a good way to save a lot of money on fuel and once again better emissions that other fossil fuels.
Cheers,
Dustin

LPG conversion is around 2grand.

thanks, would be a good alternative, but it's a matter of getting 2 grand together.

[Edited on 26-4-2005 by dusto81]

My uncle from holland was paying $2.80 a lt. and that was a couple of year ago. He told me NEVER to complain about fuel prices in australia. Even the yanks are paying 60 cents and there is a national uproar. I think the americans are finally wondering ' why are we driving F100's when we really only need sedans'. mmmmm

How about an alternative:
http://www.aussieveedubbers.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=37063#pid331341 

Yeh the electric looks like a top alternative, but I don't have money at the moment to change and get the batteries and such. I also like the long range of the kombi as I drive around the country a bit. Defintley an interesting concpet the electric engine.
Cheers

I finally received the email today so it's doing the rounds. I'm going to stick to Caltex where I can. May as well give it a go.

what the
i managed to squeeze $41 worth of fuel into the bug. what's going on these days! :cussing

Cost me $64 to fill the kombi recently! When I first got the Notch it cost $15 to fill the 40 L tank (yeah that was back in '88...the good ole days)
It occurred to me that the government are cashing in on the price of fuel, since they excise and GST are both charged as percentages of the wholesale price. The more petrol costs the more they make!!! That shits me the most about the whole issue. I use Shell LRP for the van. They are the only people still making it to my knowledge.
I got that email recently too.
Regards all,
Toby

Alternative.. nah not worth the electric bill. And hydrogen engines are bad for the ennvironment (incase you dont know hydrogen floatsup into the atmosphere and freezes in the ozone and they when it heats up it rips the ozone appart).
As for the petrol prices there are a few problems here:
a) China have finally moved into the car world and with this demand has outweighed supply.
b) Oil companies purposly driving prices up with excuses of no enough supply.
Eh my 15 cents
-M

I've said it before, I wont say it again. Read the whole post if you want to know why prices are what they are, its not conspiracy theories, its just facts. But if you like the conspiracy theory better, go right ahead....

PS all the major oil companies in Australia make LRP. Its my understanding that the additive varies between companies though. I know my type 4 powered baja would never run on LRP from anywhere, it would carbon up the plugs to the point of misfire very quickly. I ended up running it on the redline additive and normal unleaded.