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Upright in a Type 3
squizy - October 30th, 2005 at 09:36 PM

Has anyone ever run an upright motor in a Type 3 without any cooling issues?

I've seen plenty of cars in mags and know of a car in Melbourne with an upright, but need to understand the setup of it to do it successfully.

Bizarre - October 31st, 2005 at 06:49 AM

i will be game and say it cant be done.

There was a pic of a type 3 a while back with a big motor in it but i will say it was a show pony.

A type 3 sucks its air from that opening in the back (back is back) An upright sucks from inside the compartment.

So unless you are going to open up the engine lid and custom seal the engine bay i dont think it can be done.

Now to find that pic..........:duh





[ Edited on 30-10-2005 by Bizarre ]

Bizarre - October 31st, 2005 at 06:54 AM

wow.... that was easy AND this link is still there

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4563445843#ebay...

[ Edited on 30-10-2005 by Bizarre ]

VDubya - October 31st, 2005 at 07:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bizarre
A type 3 sucks its air from that opening in the back (back is back) An upright sucks from inside the compartment.


That is right. They SUCK air. As long as air can enter the engine compartment the fan will SUCK air.

How does the air get behind the fan in a Type 1? Goes around a corner as the fan SUCKS it in.

It will do likewise in a Type 3.

Why you would want un upright in there is a different question. But it WILL work.

Bizarre - October 31st, 2005 at 07:59 AM

Ummmm........doesnt the Type 3 have a rubber bellows that draws air in from the louvres below the windscreen???

Hence no need to seal the exhaust heat away from the engine bay

Ummm....... doesnt the type 1 draw air in from louvres WITHOUT the need of the bellows


How would cool air get to the Type 1 fan shroud without sucking in exhaust heat???
Type 3's run hot enough as it is. They run even hotter when that bellows/seal is not in perfect condition.

How it is going to run when you try and suck the air with NO bellows??? :spin:


Hence IT NEEDS the engine bay to be sealed from the exhaust heat.??

squizy - October 31st, 2005 at 09:45 AM

Just thinking then out loud.....if a Type 1 upright sucks it's air in through the compartment, then isn't the Type 3 engine space just a larger compartment?

VDubya - October 31st, 2005 at 09:58 AM

Yes, you just use a modified breastplate to seal off the hot pipes. A breastplate to suit an upright engine in a 72 on bus is a great starting point.

Bizarre - October 31st, 2005 at 11:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by squizy
.....if a Type 1 upright sucks it's air in through the compartment, then isn't the Type 3 engine space just a larger compartment?


Air travels the path of least pressure drop

The type 3 compartment isnt "directly" open to atmosphere. The air travels in the slots at the botom of the windscreen (well on a notch anyway) round the sides and in through where the bellows connects.
A fair amount of pressure drop but it is the only path in and i THINK the Type 3 fan sucks more air??
It is directly coupled to the motor so the revs are higher - where as the Type 1 fan would spin slower as it is geared down???

The type 1 compartment is "directly" open to atmosphere. the air just comes straight in.
the pressure drop here is "relatively" light and the air comes in the louvres before it is sucked up past leaks in the breast plate sealing.

yes - if you sealed with a modified breast plate "technically" the air would travel in like it normally does. As long as it is near perfectly sealed

I just have my doubts.

squizy - October 31st, 2005 at 11:58 AM

So I'd better just save up for some short manifolds, linkages, and associated metal work eh? :thumb

VDubya - October 31st, 2005 at 11:58 AM

Keyboard mechanics usually do have doubts.
I have seen it done and even worked on a car where the owner had done this. There were no signs of the engine having been starved of cool air.

The fan will easily SUCK in as much air as it needs.

Bizarre - October 31st, 2005 at 12:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by VDubya
Keyboard mechanics usually do have doubts.




Nah Squiz

Just listen to the experts.

After all we have all blosomed so much since the wind started blowing :P:P:P

Jak Rizzo - October 31st, 2005 at 05:45 PM

Hi Paul, Last year I built a 1641cc engine for a friends type 3 wagen. 69mm counterweighted crank, engle 110, 40x35 o44s, 1.25's, 40mm webbers on short manifolds, all balanced etc etc, got 65hp @ the wheels.
My advice would be to go upright or for half the effort & expense put a radiator in the front.
regards
Jak

squizy - October 31st, 2005 at 10:16 PM

Hopefully Jak we can have a meeting at Koolewong in the near future and discuss this. :lol: