Just wondering where to start in the search for the cause of my bad brakes on my bay kombi at the moment. i noticed towards the end of my travels at the end of last year that the pedal was sitting a little lower and not quite as effective has it had been (the brakes were amazing at first). now that she has sat for 10 months, i have found that the handbrake is virtually useless ( the lever inside one of the drums had snapped, but i fixed that, and the handbrake is still virtually decoration) and the pedal does nothing until it is half way to the floor, it stops, but nowhere near as well as it used to. my first thought was to bleed the brakes, but after the first brake, every one i tries, as soon as i adjusted the nipple fluid started seeping out with seemingly no air.
now i put new brake sylinders on the rear 2 years ago and rebuild the front brakes and master cylinder with new rubbers at the same time. but now, nomatter how much i pump it i cant get the pedal to do anything above 1/2 way. i fear that the booster has had it, does anyone else haev any suggestions?

when was the last time you adjusted the back brakes?

hand brake cables seized........

how old is the fluid

adjusted the backs about a month ago in the hope that that was the problem. how could i tell if the cable is stuck?

fluid is 2 years old, put it in fresh when i did the rebuild.

anudder thing, press foot on pedal, then start engine, you should feel pedal drop as vacuum puts booster into action

damn, no noticable drop, i think its hooked up to the right pipe on the engine.

erk, that is not good,
best bet would be to swap booster/mastercylinder for another unit & see what happens, booster failure alone would only generally give very hard pedal, not 1/2 pedal movement, rear shoe adjustment would mean pedal would come up after a few quick pumps,

another thing you can check is jack up the back wheels, both, or one at a time, & keep pulling handbrake out one click at a time until you can't turn wheel by hand clicks should be about the same both sides, if they are 3 or four clicks different, the side with the most clicks required should be investigated further,
I have just been through this over the last coupla weeks

at the moment, i dont think i could pull the handbrake on far enough to stop the wheels from turning, have to take another look at the second side, i adjusted both only a month ago though and havent driven on them since. i am completely stumped as to why i cant get the pedal to pump right up. just had a thought though, are there any lines/spots that could get damaged by being hooked up to a towtruck? i wasnt there when the old girl got brought back down from NT, but she wasnt treated too well, cos they broke the steering lock, is there anythign they could have broken/bent in transit?

OK, well that is a bit different,
damaged leaking =excess movement, but you would see the leak, damaged blocked/kinked means you would have no pedal movement because fluid has nowhere to go, only exception being a damaged flexible hose, or an old flexible hose, if the re-enforcement of the hose is cactus, the hose will expand when you put your foot on the brake, phase 2 of that problem is the hose bursting,
handbrake you can see the cables from underneath at front, 2 cables, you need somebody to watch them underneath while you slowly pull handbrake on,
but,
heaps of pedal movement, no air in system & heaps of handbrake movement would almost have to be problem somewhere with the shoe assembly in the rear brakes

disclaimer ....
I think

will have to take another dig back there. i replaced one set of shoes because the bit that the handbrake cable pulls on had SNAPPED OFF, pretty sure it all went back together right, will have to open up the other side and see if everything is right in there.

U2U SENT

rats, my phone number just cut over to Perth, you can ring tomorrow after 8,30, ask for Kim

thanks, might give you a call friday if thats cool that'd be great (caught up all day tomorrow) just went back out to the car, the pedal does now pump up to top (i swear it didnt before i went for my test drive) and teh handbrake does have some effect when i put all my strength into engaging it, but not enough to stop me moving the car on level ground.

Oky dokey, that is sounding more hopeful, next test, pull handbrake on hard, engine off, pump brake pedal once, pedal on next press should hardly move at all, leave a coupla minutes, handbrake still on hard, press foot on brake, pedal should hardly move, then take handbrake off, leave 5 mins or so, & put foot down on pedal once, if it moves a fair way down either the shoes are unadjusted or something in there has come adrift

er also I assumed that you bled the brakes correctly, the handbrake MUST be off & the bleed valve shut off while pedal is at bottom of travel, otherwise air can still be trapped in rear cylinders

[ Edited on 4-10-2006 by kombikim ]

ancient rubber brake hoses become clogged...the massive pressure (something like 800psi i've heard) of appying your brakes will force the fluid through but there is no likewise big pressure to force it back...so...brakes don't release fully or bleed properly...new hoses simple fix...just one possibility which can't hurt

rocknrob, had new lines up front 2 years ago. will test the other idea shortly.

well it takes easy 3 pumps to get the pedal as hard as it will go. with handbrake still on hard after 5min pedal had lost a little pressure (not much) handbrake off after 5 min pedal was most of the way back to soft. will try to bleed again on the weekend, i used one of the 1-man kits the other day and im not sure how much i trust the kit to keep air out.
thanks for all the suggestions again kim.

sounds like it could be shoe adjustment, even just one shoe will give that symptom, especially if handbrake used to be alright, as long shoe travel = long pedal trevel & long handbrbrake travel, pumping the brake pedal doe not give the shoes the time to retract fully, before the next application of pressure, so less pedal movement. handbrake on also does not allow the shoes to retract, so short pedal movement til they hit drums, but if there was air in the systeminitial pedal movement would usually be a fair way before the air was compressed, - after shoe addjustment did you press the pedal a few times hard, to centre each shoe, & then re-adjust?

CHECK THE ONE WQAY VALVE ON THE VAC HOSE FROM MANAFOLD

well, got the chance to bleed it again today (this time with assistance) found air everywhere, so now pedal pumps up well to about 3/4 or 7/8 of full height. when the car is running though the pedal does nothing til it is 1/2 way down. vaccum is certainly doing somethign now, cos at idle (which is touchy as it is about 3 years overdue for a tune) when i hit the brakes the revs change slightly, if i pump the pedal it comes right up, but if i leave it for 10sec it drops right back down. on the pos side though the booster is doing fantastically when i do hit that spot, as i was bouncing and bobbing down my driveway as a test with absolutely minimal pressure compared to my type3. so now my biggest concern is why the pedal is so low? it is almost as low as the accellerator. is there any way to adjust this!?

well ive readjusted the rear pads and the pedal now sits about an inch lower when the handbrake is off then when it is on, so hopefully thats all good, test drive soon.