hi everyone,

giorgias has been having problems of late since a trip to toowoomba a few months back. i would really appreciate it if anyone could give some advice.

the cylinder heads have become loose and the mechanic has re-tensioned them. after that, it purrs perfectly. unfortunately, after a few weeks, they become loose again. the mechanic sourced down the spare parts and told me he could get them fixed.

now, he is telling me that he cannot fix the cylinder heads as my car already has inserts for the rods. he is proposing to take the engine out and go through it and drill the new inserts in. it is gonna cost me a bomb (abt 1 grand), latter, he is suggesting that i might as well do a recondition (abt 2.5 grand).

after re-tensioning, it is sounding perfect. the car as a whole is fine and i would really like to get a second opinion. (if it is only the cylinder heads, why should i get a recondition if one has already been done 2 years ago?) should i change to a new engine? go all out and re-condition it and be broke? do with the essentials? what else can i do? is it a fair price to pay? i know its a big ask... would really appreciate all advice, thanks!

[Edited on 26-5-2003 by 70giorgias]

whoa - many questions and many answers.

Proper answer - pull it and fit it properly.

What is in there at the moment 1600?

The heads studs are pulling out. So this needs to be fixed. To fix this you and pulling the top end to pieces.
Hmmm you might even need to split the case?
If you do then the only thing missing is bearings for a full rebuild.
Yeah - you can pick up a second hand motor for $500-$750ish but no idea what it is like.

$2500 for a rebuild is "in the ball park"
I know some at $1500 and some at over $3,000

What would "I" do - either $500 2nd hand or $2,500
or a 1776!

hmm tough call

what do every one elses 2c sound like

Use the VW motor as a boat anchor and fit a Subi

What nonsense!

How familiar are you with the design of the VW engine? Would you feel confident in doing any spanner work yourself?

VW heads are held on by being bolted to long steel studs, which are normally just screwed into threaded holes in the magnesium alloy block (or case, as we VW people call it). A normal rebuilding technique is to unscrew the studs from the case, drill out the holes and screw in larger steel inserts (a bit like helicoils). Then the studs are then screwed and Loctited back into them. This gives the studs more 'bite' and less chance of being pulled out.

However it sounds like yours have come loose. You can tighten them, but they come undone again. This is a real pain, as the top row of head nuts can't be reached unless most of the fan shroud is taken off first. This isn't a job you want to have to do every weekend.

The only way to fix it properly is to take the motor out and either fix yours, or bolt in another (2nd hand) motor. Fixing yours is pretty straight-forward, and it would be a good opportunity to put in new bearings, pistons and cylinders and some new or reco'd heads. Then you get another 100,000 km of trouble-free VW motoring.

But it will cost $$ if you get someone else to do it. If you do the disassembly and reassembly work yourself, you will only have to pay for parts. VW workshop manuals are easy to follow. It's not difficult to build a VW motor. Contact your local VW club and you might be able to get some more experienced VW owners to come over and help (ie. instruct and guide you).

thanks phil, and blue. sound advice. i believe the right thing to do is to take it out and do it properly too. unfortunately, i don't have the tools to get the engine out(might be too costly to buy all the required stuff, i checked out just a good torque wrench and its $$$$!).
you are right, phil. its does appear to be a very straight forward job. apparently, they are not loose on the right, only on the left side. that's why, i am wonder if its really worth dat much labor cost...

thanks dak, but i have no intention of turning it into a sub yet, though i do need a good bathtub.

If your not up to doing the work yourself, it may be worth shopping around a few mechanics specialising in VW's for another quote. Just be armed with specific information on what the problem is and how you want it fixed.
There's a few to chose from, and ask the forums advice if you not sure about their quality of work.
:thumb

[Edited on 26-5-2003 by Andy]

hi andy, i know some in brissy but not really sure of their quality and it won't be ethical for me to put their names here. could you u2u me if you know some decent, honest ones? thanks!

[Edited on 27-5-2003 by 70giorgias]

have you rung everyone in the OZ VW Buisness Directory?

(Bris only obviously )

There is 13 of them listed there

[Edited on 27-5-2003 by blue74l]

check u2u

in brissy try these ppl,(i got a pretty good list when i was looking for rebuild)
manx Buggies
harding's
leons motors
southside vw
Anderwauld automotive
Pheonix engineering
micks motors
those are who i checked out.

[Edited on 27-5-2003 by BiX]

my first thought was to dismiss Bens comment about " should replace the case "
but Those wonderful magnesium cases are getting very old now,
so there is something in what he says.
Best for an experienced Engine Builder to make that call after they pull apart the block and clean / inspect.
I had case saver inserts put in my case - they are pretty good, I would imagine that fatigue would crack the Case somewhere else before these ever let go.
- if you can afford to do full re-build then maybe that would be best option.
- could you get compression test to give you some indication on engine condition.

Yeah - a proper inspection needed.

Could be a "H" case

Didnt these have 10mm studs and no inserts?

These were prone to pulling out?

Does the case have inserts now?

i think blue and oval hit the spot. the compression tests are good.

i have a new theory now.
the strange thing is this: the mechanic replaced the second 10mm stud three weeks ago. he then told me that he could get the spares for the rest in a few week's time. so i thot, 'fine, replace them all and i can drive it!'. but on monday, he tells me a different story, he said that there are already inserts in the other cylinders, so he can't replace them with the spares without stripping the engine off.
the question i have been asking myself is this: how did he manage to change the second rod and then tell me a few weeks later that the rest cannot be replaced? its a bit suspicious. i don't know much about cylinder heads, i am afraid. so i can't judge for it unless i get someone else's second opinion. i am sick and tired of getting ripped off... i really am. all i want to do is drive my car.

got it fixed. ppl at conti engines did a great job of reconditioning the engine - a lil lit over my budget but the engine sound is sweet a$$ now!!!

thanks for the tips everyone! appreciate it!

[Edited on 10-7-2003 by 70giorgias]

Can i ask what route you went??

full rebuild or what

Ignore or u2u if ya like?

just curious

I hope it's not too late to add something here...
Shimo (formerly of Hellbug) sorted me out with head studs when i was building my 1776. There are original German 8mm head studs and there are aftermarket studs he said. The "cheapies" are very prone to stretching which is apparent when you line them up and see the difference in length for yourself. Could this have been your problem? Just a thought...

JT