I have been having problems breaking rocker shaft clips & wavy washers on the rocker shaft.

I have a new 1916 with an alloy case and 044 heads, but are running standard push rods, rockers, and shafts. I do have swivel feet adjusters though. The engine has done about 13,000 km on it. The first 3 times, I knew I had a problem when the rocker moved along the shaft and started pushing the valve spring, and not opening the valve. Yesterday, I thought I could hear a faint clicking noise (I am listening really carefully at the moment), and on inspection, had another broken wavy washer, but not the clip yet.

I am now guessing that the wavy washers are failing (maybe a faulty batch?), causing the rocker to 'bounce' on the clip untill it breaks.

Anyone else had this problem, or any thoughts on what could be causing it?

I used to have this problem on my old 2007cc Beetle engine, but only when it had a hotter cam (Engle 120) in it. When I eventually put the stock cam back in, it didn't happen again. I only broke the wavy washers, never the clips.

My cam is a very mild one - I am a builder and tow a trailer a lot of the time, so I am going for more low-end torque.

I will enquire as to what the cam grind is though.

the swivel feet adjusters may be allowing a funny not-nice resonance in the valvetrain - got back to standard and see what happens

Interesting that they would start now - I have been running them for the last 235,000 km, although these are a new set, but the same type.

" running standard push rods, rockers, and shafts. I do have swivel feet adjusters though.",,,,,,, your valve geometry will be way off ,you need to fix it ,you probably have already stuffed the guides

Peter Richards built the motor. I did have rocker shafts with bolt on ends etc. instead of clips (from Geoff Unwin I think) on my old engines, but Peter had trouble getting the geometry to work with them, so he reverted to the standard shafts. Maybe I should take it somewhere else to have it checked.

Geomety should be uneffected by the shaft with bolt on ends.
That is the way I would go,
AFTER CHECKING THE GEOMETRY.

its unusual to be breaking washers and clips.
I run standard rockers,washers and clips on my hillclimb motor and have NEVER had a problem.
Although I run bolted ones on the Ragtop.........as i think ultimately they are better

I would go back to Peter to have it sorted.

When the first one broke, I took the motor back to Peter and he checked it all out, and seemed to reckon I was just unlucky. As I keep breaking them, I have been keeping him informed, and he has given me a supply of new clips & wavy washers.

I would have prefered to have my old bolted rocker shafts used when he built my new motor, but he said they kept 'binding' or something, so he reverted to standard ones, saying they very rarely break (famouis last words, as it has turned out).

When I talked to him on Thursday, he said he is working on getting me some bolted ones that he thinks are better.

I think I will have a talk to Les Barlin in Taree when I get a chance, and see if it is worth taking it to him to check the geometry.

Jeff,

Is it happening on all cylinders or is it confined to just one cylinder?

Brendan,

It is happening on different cylinders most of the time, on either head, and sometiimes the ones on the end (near the exhaust rocker), and sometimes the ones in the centre (near the intake rocker). Whatever it is, it appears to be a general setup or a collection of the one part set up.

I noticed late friday that I had a ticking noise, so had a quick look at the job I was on. The wavy washer had broken, but not the clip. It was getting dark and cold, and the engine was hot, so I figured I would ease it the 3km home. When I went to fix it on Saturday morning, the clip had broken. This makes me think that the wavy washer breaks first all the time (maybe they are too brittle or something), and then the extra play with no easing of any sideways movement that the wavy washers would provide, it then breaks the clip.

I guess next time, as soon as I suspect a break, I will check and replace it ASAP.

Jeff, I've seen many old wavy washers so thin that they could easily be broken in your fingers. Were they new from the start with the rebuild or since they started breaking? Surely your not reving it too hard constantly?? You may find it has HD springs and the increased spring pressure is enough to warrant a solid setup even if you dont rev hard. I use solid shaft kits on all but stock engines.

I don't think I rev it too hard, or even constantly (no different than I ever have in about 37 years of driving beetles. The wavy washers were from Peter's stock - as he said, as he gets more, he just puts them in the container - possibly some of them are newer Brazillian ones. As far as I know, the valve springs aren't particularly heavy duty (if at all), but I will ask Peter and check - something else to try and rule out, or not.

I would just get the mod done to you standard rockers. they take them off, tap the ends for bolts and use shims to get the lateral play right. Any VW shop should be able to do it in an arvo. Had it done to my 1776, cheap and easy!

But then this fixes the issue of the rockers, not why they are breaking.......

GEOMETRY.........seeing as you mention standard pushrods, i'm thinking this will be your problem.......

are there shimms/spacers under the rocker stands?...........there should be at least one to get the geometry back towards being correct as soon as you run with swivel feet adjusters........

best get this correct because as Brendan has stated, your guides won't live much longer without it done right..........something you can check by eye yourself Jeff, don't give us this rubbish about being a builder..........you don't even want to know what i do for a living

just in you case, you will be looking for this "square at half lift" relation ship relevant to the valve stem and swivel foot screw, as my pics are with ratio rockers that have adjustment on the push rod end

at TDC (no lift).......




at half lift... that looks square to each other to me




and at full lift....you can see here the relartionship between the cup and push rod has gone either side of square but not too extreme either way.....






044's with springs that are no more than standard sounds weird to me as well

There are spacers under the shims.

I will check the geometry ASAZP.

Hmm. I can see why you were confused. I messed those words up bad didn't I?

I did mean under the rocker stands. Between the head and where the rocker assembly bolts down to it.

......just double checking

As stated earlier my preference is a bolted shaft with shims and no wave washers.

But you can replace the wave washers with shims....even on stock clipped shafts.
You can either buy a shim kit,
or any engine reconditioner will have a selection of valve spring shims that will do the job.
Some people will 'tie wire' the stock clips,
but that should not b neccesary with the side clearance set at the minimum(I use 0.004").

I have used stock shafts with some circlip grooves added,
but the VW shaft is not as hard as the aftermarket kits that come with all the shims and hardware you need.

But what ever you choose to do,
check that geopmetry first.

Well, I have had a look at my valve train geometry, and comparing my photos with Damo's, I don't think it is as good as it could be.
I am hoping to take it to Les in Taree (Grumble) next week. Will see what his thoughts are.

What lift in the second pic, if 1/2 lift....oooh yeah found some poor rocker geometry

Matt,

The 2nd photo is at full lift as far as I can tell. I reckon to match Damo's photos, I would need longer pushrods and bigger shims under the rocker shafts. Does this sound right to you?

Getting well out of my area of expertise. I will get Les to look at it for sure.