Which is lighter?


Ball joint or King and Link? - King and Link

Swing axle or IRS? - Swing axle

Macpherson strut or beam front?

Superbug or Standard? - Standard

Drum brakes or disk brakes?

Does anyone know the lightest standard Beetle year model?


Smiley

BUMP

Anyone?

Smiley

Hmm... only two things I know for definite on your list are:

- Swingaxle is lighter than IRS
- Super's and L's are the heaviest models

Cheers man. Will edit first Post with the replies.

Smiley

Oh hey - I don't know that strut is heavier than beam... just that strut cars are heavier (remember they have IRS plus a lot of other heavier stuff in 'em)

Whatcha tryin to figure out anyways ???

id put money on anything from the 49-59 vintage, base models, no chrome, spartan interior... although, whats heavier the extra metal & less glass of a split/oval or the later models with less metal & big glass...

original factory standard rusty metal or new repaired metal?

Dunno dude - what's your dub made of ???

interesting...


why/what are you trying to work out mate?? I fail to see how its about the wieght..... If you want something for drag racing,a swinger will work for you, if your going for circuit stuff, IRS will benifit you, if you like struts/more modern designs... well you go for struts...?

...and link pin beam is MUCH lighter than baljoint.

And you have not asked about aerodynamics yet?
Are you using it for slow stop/start work or more driving at reasonable speeds?
For what you are doing weight is only an issue for accelerating and hills, aerodynamics will be a bigger issue once at most road speeds.
The way you drive will drastically alter your economy also.
You might want to also factor in the safety improvements on a super/L bug with IRS, struts and disc brakes.

There are electric motor kits available. I have no first hand experience, but posted details from users are very favorable. Cost seemed comparable to a professional full re-build of a motor. Mostly in the USA but have seen a type 3 and beetle for sale in Oz with them.
These were very old and very heavy kits, especially the battery packs, probably much better ones out now.


Good luck with your project, let us know how it goes

Sounds very cool.
Hope you get to follow this one through. We can;t have everyone fitting Subaru motors....

Quote:

Originally posted by Andy Sounds very cool. Hope you get to follow this one through. We can;t have everyone fitting Subaru motors....

Does anyone know if drums or discs are lighter? Or does it depend on the kit and the stud pattern?

Smiley

i know that discs are far more effective. but i would think drums are lighter. having said that, type 3 drums are much bigger than type 1 drums..

Drum brakes are typically used for "Mileage marathon" cars because they drag a little bit less.
The spring can pull the lining away from the drum (if they are adjusted perfectly), unlike a disk pad which tends to always lightly rub.

I think that the idea of a super efficient car is a good one. So is an electric car.

Firstly aerodynamics doesn't matter at speeds of less that 90km/h, so I don't think that I'd concern myself much with that.
Secondly a plug in electric car in Australia runs on coal or diesel unless you live in the Snowy Mountains and then it runs on falling water under pressure.
Thirdly the replacement electric motor/s and batteries will probably make the car heavier that a standard petrol car.

It's a good idea, but I don't think that the differences in the weights of standard cars will matter much in the long run.

Go for it. I'd like to see the end result.

How much are you hoping to spend on this Smileyman? I don't want to burst your bubble or anything, but in my opinion home-built electric cars are much too expensive to be viable at the moment. As I'm sure you're aware if you've done the research, a good conversion with decent performance and some sort of usable range is not going to leave you much change from $10,000, and it could cost far more depending on how carried away you get. If economy is your goal, then you could buy a stock beetle and then put petrol in it for about four or five years with that much money! I am also interested in electric vehicles and would love to build one just for fun and to have a different driving experience, but there's no way I could justify the costs.

Also, if you're looking for ultimate light weight for this vehicle, have you considered using a Manx-style buggy? They surely must be a good amount lighter than a Beetle. What about a Mk1 Golf or Polo?

Oh, and on the subject of low-speed aerodynamics, it really does make a difference. Ask any cyclist who has ever ridden in a peleton, once you cut down the aerodynamic drag your overall resistance drops substantially. Another example is a man who improved the fuel economy of a 125cc Honda motorbike from about 110mpg to 214mpg purely through streamlining. This 125cc bike is essentially a scooter, so it's not like he's breaking the land speed record. Admittedly, motorbikes have much lower rolling resistance, as he shows in a chart below, but reducing aero drag is still worthwhile. As you can see in the chart, at roughly 90km/h the aero drag of a car is significantly greater than rolling resistance.



His website is here: http://www.velomobiel.nl/allert/Recumbent%20motorbike.htm 

Cost is not a problem, it just takes time. By the time I save up enough money and finish building it, electric cars probably will be viable.

I know that everything you are saying it completely true.
I do have a J&S buggy at home but it is going to be an offroader so elecric is out. plus with a buggy the aerodynamics are pretty bad and you don't have anywhere to put many batteries.

Smiley

You were asking about standard VW Beetle weights? These come from period magazine road tests from Australian, US and UK magazines. The different countries listed slightly different weights - usually within 20kg of each other - so use these figures as a guide rather than an absolute.

1. 1956 1200 Beetle - 724 kg (14.25 cwt)
2. 1963 1200 Beetle - 741 kg (1631 lb)
3. 1966 1300 Beetle - 795 kg (1750 lb)
4. 1968 1500 Beetle - 825 kg (1815 lb)
5. 1971 1600 Superbug S - 838 kg (16.5 cwt)
6. 1972 1300 Beetle - 820 kg (1808 lb)
6. 1973 1600 Superbug L - 890 kg (1958 lb)

Fuel economy would depend more on the engine size and gearing, and how it is driven, rather than how much it weighs.

Aerodynamic drag increases with the square of the speed, and is also dependent on air density, and the coefficient of drag that is related to the cross-sectional area.