Hi guys i need some help to find some coil over shockers for my 1974 1300 beetle with a ball joint front end. It isn't a super bug either. Just to make it harder I would like them to be fully adjustable to. this car is for road use and it NEEDS to be made heaver in the end. I have seen the ones on classic veebubbs and not to shore on them has anyone had any experience with these. As they are only set adjustments .HELP AS THIS IS MY FIRST BUG

Do you want to run coil overs instead of the torsion bar springs? or as well as?

If you run them instead you will have to modify your front suspension quite significantly.

If you run them as well as the torsion bars you will have 2 completely different spring rates working in the same system which may make the car handle strangely.


May i ask the primary reason for this?

If it was a K+L beam i have some in the garage you could have had for free. but they wont fit a ball joint beam.

The main reason for this I want to stiffen the front of the car up.The front is very soft. The person that i bought the car off said that the shockers rant that old. I have talked to a few people and they are blaming the shockers not the torsion leafs. The car has 2.5 drop stubs in it and I have plenty of clearance but turn the car into a corner and it drops onto the top of the tyer. I have about 3 inches of room when the car is is sitting there. In my opinion that is way to soft. Even pushing the car down by hand is very easy. I suppose I am use to a spring front and all I would do is put stronger springs in. Like I keep on saying this is my first bug and it will be a huge learning curve and understanding torsion bar suspension.

All I can say is I like having a car that can handle well. After all it is a car that I bought for my daughter for her fist car and I want it to handle right. I know alot of you might say get a narrowed beam but even with that it still need a decent set of shockers for it

If you want it to be stiffer and maintain the same ride height then you need stiffer springs, which in this case means stiffer torsion bars. Changing the damping rate of the suspension is not a substitute for spring rate.

What size wheels and tyres are you running? In my opinion if you want to put bigger tyres on there and keep the standard fenders then you cannot lower the car without the tyres rubbing. I have always run my Beetles at stock height with 195mm-section tyres on a 6" wide rim. This gives me a car which handles well and the tyres do not rub on the body. If you start to go lower, then you will rub tyres.

Yes I need to go stiffer with the suspension. I am finding it hard to find a place that can supply me with the torsion leafs to be able to do this. My understanding that there is no allowance to make the front torsion bar stiffer.

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ACC-C10-4076

Kev

Do some more reading about the beetles suspension and changes you can make. Maybe you could look into a stronger antiroll bar, larger rear torsion bars, Adjustable Koni Shocks, further eccentric camber adjuster nuts, If you want to lower the car though and run wide wheels then you will need to make concessions... Maybe adjust your turning circle so that you restrict how far the wheel turns...

Otherwise stick with a newer car.
How much are you wanting to spend... and how much can you do yourself, change is not cheap.

Shocks = Dampners. These stop your car from bouncing like a pogo when you hit a bump by absorbing the force of the movement and returning you to smoooooooth.

Springs (Ie: torsion bars) = these are the things that hold your car up and govern how stiff the ride is and how much force is required to compress the suspension.

You want to change the torsion bars.

PS try
http://www.aircooled.net/gnrlsite/resource/articles.htm 

Perhaps someone has removed some leaves out of the front tortion bars you have in there, in an attempst to lower or soften the front end. You won't be able to see this without removing the tortion bars completely. Perhaps all you need is a set of of standard bars with all the leaves in them. When you say you "turn in" and have a problem, does it still have the sway bar in place? When using drop spindles, "rubbing tyres" doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the front end, there's not much room under there. Good luck, keep at it.

I hear you all I'm not running wide tyers they are 165/ 85/ 15 I may have to drops in the profile of the tyer. But I still feel that the front needs to be more ridgid. I am can dothe work myself it is just trying to get the right information on what to change and where to buy the parts at the right price. I have seen those coil over shocks that kev has shown are they any good or are they just for show

Sorry guys the rear of the car is fine don't need to touch it

Go back to basics

1) are the leaves all there and are they new? are they very old and suffered from fatguie.

Now your talking about it handling better through corners. Stiff springs are not the be all and end all. A beetle has nothing in the front, hence very soft suspension.... buy putting in stiffer front leaves/springs you will loose some suppleness. Cars don't have to be stiff to handle well. A well set up bettle will handle very well, even without rock solid springs.

Do you have a front sway bar fitted?

The sway bar, combined with the spring rate will control roll stiffness. The advantage of the roll bar is that it will still allow a supple ride, but when you turn in will help stop the body roll. Have a look at the links above and talk to some of hillclimbers who run BJ front end. Through you won't want a track setup for the streett, they should ne able to point in you in the right direction.

Yes it has a front swaybar . I would like to thank you guys for the help. But where can I buy all this stuff like new torision leafs or even stronger sway bars all is seem to be able to find is standard stuff

Most of the good VW shops will have it, or know where to get it.

depends on where you are located?

Even then most places ship aussie wide

I need some sites guys please. I am near geelong victoria

http://www.classicveedub.com.au 

http://www.vintageveedub.com.au 

http://www.beetleracing.com.au 

http://www.mickmotors.com.au 

yep seen those one not much help

These guys are good - http://www.csp-shop.de/index.php 
They are located in Germany.
The exchange rate between the Dollar and the Euro is still ok... right NOW

1 AUD = 0.7312 EUR

You could buy a copy of the Australian VW mag, check the advertisements, and call an expert.

That a good one like that site

Hi

I've never heard of heavier front torsion leaves being made for beam bugs.

Steve

Swayaway in the states have made them for years, i had a set in a 1500 beetle that i had, made the car handle a lot better, i will be putting a set in my karman beetle, i run 6" x 16" front rims with 195/55/16 and dropped spindles and have no rubbing problems, just had to limit the lock slightly, what offset are your wheels as that is probably the issue.

Hi

I found them on the sway away site http://www.swayaway.com/VWLeafSprings.php  I never new that they existed.

Do any of the hill climb or curcuit guys use these?

Steve

They sound the trick. I had a sneaky suspicion that they didn't make heavier leafs as nearly every wear I looked I could find was standard and the same with sway bars. Will be interested when I have a look. What spring rate of measurement did you go with your leafs and swaybar ?????

I know this is not going to be helpful, but I'll tell you just for laughs. My Mum used to put about a 20 kg hunk of concrete in the front of her '62 bug to keep the front steady and a little stiff. Apparently is was common practice back then in the 70's.

Here's probably what you're after:
http://www.red9design.com/type1.htm 

Or the GAZ units here, also look decent:
http://www.status-vw.co.uk/shop/index.html?lang= 

Both options may give you grief with your local roads authority/ rego inspector : http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=91119 

No matter what you do to change the spring rate you will still have a rubbing ussue at one time or another with the current set of rims that you have, i do not understand how wheel manufacturers get the offset wrong resalting in the problem that you have with only a 5.5" rim and a 165 tyre, i run a set of porsche boxter wheels on my beetle convertable, these are 6" x 16" with a ET of 55MM, fitted with a 195/55/16 tyre, ball joint disc brake front end with dropped spindles, the only rubbing that i had was were the bottom trailing arm contacted the inside of the rim were the grub screw attaches the arm to the torsion bar, this only happened on full lock, a simple adjustment of the steering stop's fixed that and have had no other problems. the swayaway torsion bars are about 10% stiffer and are a noticable improvement.

Not to be negative. But the reason you are finding it hard to get stiffer leaves in Australia is that most people don't use them. I am pretty sure 99% of the hillclimb cars don't use them also, and they are probably some of the best handing cars around.

Poeple have been modifying these cars for 50+ years and there is a pretty set pattern of how to get a beetle to handle for normal street, hot street, track and drag racing. Probably best to call and talk to some of the shops or attend shows and talk to people. Otherwise you may end up with a very stiff end, that bounces everywhere and is dangerous.

You have a good point Bix as this is the first beetle that i have owned or had anything to do with. I am having a great learning curve. I just trying to get my head around torsion suspension and trying to understand it one thing that i have sort of learnt is that the front shocker's in my understanding work in reverse short if compared to conventional spring suspension. can anyone confirm this for me please