So I wonder if anyone can help answer this one for me whilst I await QLD transport to get back to me.

I was wanting to fabricate a vented brake disc conversion for my 1959 Beetle with 205PCD original steels.

Now even tho Volks Conversion and CSP with TUV approval, better than the ADR too, sell similar kits that require a mounting plate to bolt to the discs hub and then the 205 wheel bolts to the mounting plate yet my engineer says this may not be legal unless ADR has made a specific allowance for this?

Does anyone know if it's legal or not? It's not a wheel spacer or adapter to change from one PCD to another so technically it should be allowed. Strength would be better than the original drum so can't see why the dumb ADR wouldn't allow it.

Cheers

Sherman did it with his early kit and got it engineered, yet other engineers have argued the legality. He used specifically a rotor from a Mazda that was originally fastened to the wheel hub and by somehow convincing his engineer that if he used these same mounting bolts to fasten the wheel mounting plate, it wasn't actually a wheel adapter even though it looks like one .
I can't see why the fitting of a disc hat to an engineered hub would be any different, although the approval is still necessary. It appears to me to be more a case of how we/engineers describe the parts we use. Don't call it a wheel adapter but a mounting hub.......

haha gota love australia

Like 3 inch lift kit vs. chassis stiffening

In my early days i had the misfortune to have dealings with person mentioned above in the form of the fore said discs brake kit using the mazda hubs that had the adaptor plate/mounting hub, these came complete with two siezed calipers, one broken bleeder along with the manditory taurbmans recondition, the adaptors were fastened to the hub using 8MM bolts, any engineer that would pass rubbish like that should be shot, it made the track on the front with standard wheels about 75MM over track, as a machinist i now completely engineer and fabricate my own, as for using the above set up, it can only be called a adaptor plate because that is what it is, i machined mine out of on piece of T6 billet stock. they have these rules in place to make sure that any mods are done to a high engineering standards, its all about catering for the lowerest common denominator in a attempt to stop dangerous vehicles being driven on the roads, the only thing you could do is keep approaching different engineers until you find one that will accept the risk of using that set up. i had to learn the hard way and did not purchase one set but two, one for my mate as well, both ended up being junk, i have learnt a lot since then. also a lot of porsche 911's run spacers as standard, all complied when the vehicle was imported and approved as a manufacturers part and by the way i am still waiting for replacement calipers for those kits.

Hi

Would ADRs affect a car that old?

I've also heard similar stories about that guy from the Gold Coasts brake conversions.

Steve

Look through VSB14 (Vehicle Service Bulletin). Search for it and have a read.

It is close to being recognised as a National code for modifications.

As far as I know, a wheel spacer is ok if it is permanently fixed to the hub, and does not allow the track to increase more than 25mm overall, or allows the wheel studs to take any load or stresses that they were not designed for.

Volks Conversion Kits are not ADR approved and have no design approval either. John likes to say they are QLD Transport Approved but what he means is that people in QLD Transport have let cars with them through rego.

As him straight up and he will be able to supply no paperwork at all.

There is no issue at all running an adapter as part of the disc brake kit to return the selected disc conversion to the factory PCD. I suggest you read the rules and the ADR's. I think you are confussing the inability to run a wheel adapter as opposed to running an engineer designed and approved disc kit which includes an adapter as part of it.

It has little to do with QLD Transport as they will refer you to an approved person and if they hold the relevant design code they can approve the design, once installed they can then approve the install. I went though all this is person when we got the Custom Offroad Disc Conversion Kits designed approved. We supplied 5/205 PCD adapters with the kit for those who needed it and this was covered in the design approval.

I never liked the look of VolksConversions kit but wondered how it got away with being legal.
I've read the NCOP and been advised by Qld Trans that adapters cannot be used yet original PCD wheels must be used and that the Porsche stuff passes as it's from a large international company and if used on any vehcile not originally designed for then it is illegal.
Hoping my engineer will see that it is perfectly safe and like people have said it's a mounting plate not an adapter plate that is permenantly bolted to the hub with deep wheel bolt sized Hi-ten bolts.

Can anyone point me in the direction of the conversions they have said they designed and passed scrutiny?

Cheers,
Mike

Thanks Brad. Good info.

The JS bit of your post tho....ask him and he'll tell you they are approved by Qld T'sport.....don't know re paperwork tho.

If the JS brakes are approved it does not say much for the people that do the engineering approvals, the engineer that i use has no issues in using a different PCD as long as it is up to the correct engineering standard,
You can come and have a look at the brakes on my car as i have already engineered, fabricated and are approved for the street.

Gee Brad you don't seem to remember the trailing arms I got of you with the Ford EA disc brakes! How the discs rubbed on the caliper brackets(clearance should have been 3mm as on the EA Ford). Did your engineer pass these too? Must thank you for zero support I got from you/CVD

Sadly I know this post won't be here tomorrow. Perhaps we could continue with factual information to help educate members minus the real names of the people that manufacture or sell such kits. Forget about grinding axes, just share your experience as to what works and what doesn't!

Dave

Well I couldn't let "The Buggy Guru" bag someone else when he is far from a shining example.

As for bagging any body, its very fair to let other people know if you have had any issues with kits that are being sold today, i am still owed money or replacement parts from my brush with J* 30 years ago, every show i see him at i stand in front of his stall and tell every body to avoid his rubbish, as far as i can see i am just sharing my experence letting people know what works and what does not, thanks for the compliment Brad that is my car that you recognise. the brakes that i have on my car are 4 x 130, if you had enough time you could make the 5 x 205 hubs out of billet, you would have a lot of swarf left over, you would need to check with alcoa about how the material is made, i did not think it would make to much difference as the hubs are way over engineered for such a light car

I am quite certain that a hub made from the same material that i used would be more than suitable for the task, just have it engineered after all its a light car it would be used on.

Quote:

Originally posted by MickH Quote: Originally posted by Brad Quote: Originally posted by matberry Thanks Brad. Good info. The JS bit of your post tho....ask him and he'll tell you they are approved by Qld T'sport.....don't know re paperwork tho. What a salesman wished to tell you is his own business, ask him to provide some supporting paperwork ...... there will be none. I asked him for it for many many years and he even admitted he never had any. All the engineers I have worked with will not touch JS Disc kits as the design is not even close to legal, do some calcs and you will soon see that it provided less braking force than the stock drums due to his rotor sizes and pad surface area. Then have a look how it takes what say 5 x 12mm bolts and replaces them with 4 x 8mm .... or even 10mm on some kits . They are way under spec. I am pretty sure that vwo60 may have had his brakes approved by the same engineer who did my design approval, if his car is that in his avatar it is one very sweet ride and I would have to say his brakes are the nicest I have seen on a dub. I could be wrong and have him mixed up but the car look familiar. As for QLD Transport advice .... I guess that explains why they aren't allowed to approve most kits and they have the approved officers scheme allowing people with an actual clue to design approve disc kits. I have sold, installed and had approved many wide 5 disc brake kits, it isn't an issue and they all use what you are reffering to as adapters and are fully legal. It all comes down to what you design and justify, heck you could call a rim an adapter if you like as it adapts the tyre to the disc .... Your engineer approved mine.

Quote:

Originally posted by mackaymanx Gee Brad you don't seem to remember the trailing arms I got of you with the Ford EA disc brakes! How the discs rubbed on the caliper brackets(clearance should have been 3mm as on the EA Ford). Did your engineer pass these too? Must thank you for zero support I got from you/CVD

Quote:

Originally posted by Brad Quote: Originally posted by mackaymanx Gee Brad you don't seem to remember the trailing arms I got of you with the Ford EA disc brakes! How the discs rubbed on the caliper brackets(clearance should have been 3mm as on the EA Ford). Did your engineer pass these too? Must thank you for zero support I got from you/CVD Were they the ones with the 2nd hand parts you supplied ? As for passing them, answer would be NO as from memory we never even saw the car they were going on, bit hard to get an install approval when we didn't fit them. As for them not fitting .. are you saying when you fitted your second hand parts you supplied to the car you were not smart enough to get them setup correctly ? Maybe you should have sent the car down so we could have set them up for you so they would work as designed.

Quote:

Originally posted by Brad Quote: Originally posted by mackaymanx Well I couldn't let "The Buggy Guru" bag someone else when he is far from a shining example. heheh, So Brent, how is living on my tax dollars treating you ? Still got time to hang out in here and offer helpful info I see. So have you taken anybody elses parts lately and tried to pass them off as something you were capable of making ? I see you still have my quote for a footer and a status to match. I am so pleased I made such a lasting impression on you, just glad you had your name in the status so I could remember WTF it was. Not sure how this thread became all about me, but mehh if that is what floats your boat. As for helping the original poster maybe you can offer some factual input ? I am sure google can help you out and give you an opinion and some experience

as for wide 5 disc brake hubs have a look at hunter rivmaster,s offroad kit it might be able to be engineerd have a chat with him good dude!