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12v to 6v voltage dropper
Aussie - December 7th, 2011 at 07:36 PM

What do people use for this? Doing a 12v conversion so need something for the wipers and also the semaphores. Does someone sell a conversion kit with voltage droppers and all bulbs etc included?

What needs to be done with the fuses? Guessing I might still be able to use the ones in there??

grumble - December 7th, 2011 at 07:40 PM

Fit a 12v wiper motor,I believe the semapores are also available in 12v or I have seen voltage reducers at Dick Smith

AyeBee - December 7th, 2011 at 08:57 PM

I bought a voltage dropping thingy from Vollks.

psimitar - December 7th, 2011 at 09:20 PM

Check the fuse rating as per V=IR then with twice the voltage then depending on the resistance of the bulb/solenoid can increase or decrease the amps so you'll have too high or too low a fuse rating. Too high means an electrical fire.

It is possible to rewind your own semaphore solenoids as the 12v ones are bloody expensive. Voltage dropper best option as should handle the semaphores current draw but not the wipers too.

Wipers is a piece of piss as just get hold of the 12v armature from West Coast, i think, in the USA. Dunno if any of the Oz VW peps actually have these in stock and even with the $50 postage the thing is dirt cheap in USA. Think all up cost me AU$60 and it works a treat :) Do check your motor is the correct one for the armature tho.

Aussie - December 7th, 2011 at 09:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by grumble
Fit a 12v wiper motor,I believe the semapores are also available in 12v or I have seen voltage reducers at Dick Smith


Are the 6v and 12v wiper motors interchangeable?

Aussie - December 7th, 2011 at 09:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by psimitar
Voltage dropper best option as should handle the semaphores current draw but not the wipers too.



Can I just run more than one voltage dropper i.e. one for each item requiring 6v?

Quote:
Originally posted by psimitar
Wipers is a piece of piss as just get hold of the 12v armature from West Coast, i think, in the USA. Dunno if any of the Oz VW peps actually have these in stock and even with the $50 postage the thing is dirt cheap in USA. Think all up cost me AU$60 and it works a treat :) Do check your motor is the correct one for the armature tho.


Not sure what the armature is? Have you got any more pics/details of what is needed?

Aussie - December 7th, 2011 at 10:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AyeBee
I bought a voltage dropping thingy from Vollks.


Did that come in any kind of kit or just on its own? Is it the type that you dial in the volts required and could you use seperate ones for each thing needing 6v? What are you doing with fuses?

VolksVair - December 7th, 2011 at 10:31 PM

An old trick we did back in the 70's was to run 12 volts through a 6 volt ignition coil, then to your wiper motor, The 6V wiper motor worked a treat

psimitar - December 8th, 2011 at 01:05 AM

i'll have to dig round for the weblink for the 12v wiper armature. Very easy job. Look on volks do the voltage dropper. It should say the amps it can handle. You also need a multimeter so you can check the amps the semaphore draws so you know if one or two are needed.

Aussie - December 8th, 2011 at 08:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by psimitar
i'll have to dig round for the weblink for the 12v wiper armature. Very easy job. Look on volks do the voltage dropper. It should say the amps it can handle. You also need a multimeter so you can check the amps the semaphore draws so you know if one or two are needed.


Had a look at the armature from WW - looks like a good solution but would not work for my 56. They are good for 58-66 cars according to the website. Thanks for the tip on Volks - they have basic voltage droppers at $12 look like they are simply in-line jobs. Do you see a problem with me just getting a few of these and using them for each of the items I want to retain 6v?

blutopless2 - December 8th, 2011 at 09:57 AM

you have to look at the power that the voltage dropper will handle... most likely one dropper per item.
Dont overload them as it will just become a heater and cook surrounding wiring etc... make sure they are mounted properly so that you have good heat dissipation.

The semaphores can be disassembled and rewound to run straight 12 volts then reassembled...
I did this mod with mine years ago and also rewired the indicator system to include the lamps of the semaphores into the flasher system.

psimitar - December 8th, 2011 at 10:12 PM

Check if your wiper is SWF. You may be lukcy ;)

Rewinding the semaphores is fairly straight forward but as for the voltage droppers you need to know the amps they can handle and figure out what the items you wish to run at 6v draw current wise.

Even the wiper motor can be rewound the same as the solenoids but is a bit more involved due to how the windings connect to contact pads etc ;)

Aussie - December 9th, 2011 at 11:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by psimitar
Check if your wiper is SWF. You may be lukcy ;)




Pulled the motor out and it is indeed a SWF.

Have emailed WW to double check but their website says:

"Please note that this armature only fits 1958-1966 Beetle SWF brand wiper motors and 1956-1964 Bus SWF wiper motors."

Check out my pics below. How close does this look to yours?

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m153/aussie1977/Aussieveedubbers/IMG_7155.jpg

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m153/aussie1977/Aussieveedubbers/IMG_7157.jpg

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m153/aussie1977/Aussieveedubbers/IMG_7158.jpg

psimitar - December 9th, 2011 at 01:00 PM

size of the motor and drive gear looks identical. So size wise it should be fine. Thing that is different is the coil design and commutator. Yours looks to have just 2 commutator segments and mine has 4, from memory, and this may be to do with dual speed on my 59 if yours is single speed. BUT this shouldn't affect your wiper at all so reckon you're right to buy this.
Being an Electrical engineer all that may happen is you have faster wipers :)

Aussie - December 11th, 2011 at 07:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by psimitar
i'll have to dig round for the weblink for the 12v wiper armature. Very easy job. Look on volks do the voltage dropper. It should say the amps it can handle. You also need a multimeter so you can check the amps the semaphore draws so you know if one or two are needed.


How do I test what the semaphores need? Have a multimeter to use now. Looking on threads on the Samba a few guys have stated that a 1ohm/50W high power resister is what is needed. How can I check this?? Volks sell resisters that are 4ohm/50W - does that mean it is for lighter loads? Would also like to do a similiar check on the wiper motor.

Cheers, Ian

psimitar - December 14th, 2011 at 08:17 AM

OK, most mulitmeters have a 10amp function in them. If so that is enough for these tests. All you do is wire the multimeter leads in series with the semaphore and turn the semaphore on. The reading is the amps the semaphore draws.

For the wiper I am not 100% 10amps is enough as it is a fairly large current drawing device. You can try and just the internal multimeter fuse will blow or put a 7.5amp fuse in series with the meter and that will safe gaurd the meter.

The resistors does work but the resistor just becomes a heat sink and will get very warm and eventually burn out but that could be years or months.

Aussie - December 14th, 2011 at 07:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by psimitar
OK, most mulitmeters have a 10amp function in them. If so that is enough for these tests. All you do is wire the multimeter leads in series with the semaphore and turn the semaphore on. The reading is the amps the semaphore draws.

For the wiper I am not 100% 10amps is enough as it is a fairly large current drawing device. You can try and just the internal multimeter fuse will blow or put a 7.5amp fuse in series with the meter and that will safe gaurd the meter.

The resistors does work but the resistor just becomes a heat sink and will get very warm and eventually burn out but that could be years or months.


Took some readings today and got 3.7 Amps on the meter with 6v supply. So do I need to check this with the resistor supplier to make sure it can handle that? Still not sure if this confirms that a 1 ohm/50W resistor will be OK??

AA003 - December 15th, 2011 at 06:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Aussie
Took some readings today and got 3.7 Amps on the meter with 6v supply. So do I need to check this with the resistor supplier to make sure it can handle that? Still not sure if this confirms that a 1 ohm/50W resistor will be OK??


You will need a 1.6 ohm resistor and 50W will be OK.

Aussie - December 15th, 2011 at 08:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AA003
Quote:
Originally posted by Aussie
Took some readings today and got 3.7 Amps on the meter with 6v supply. So do I need to check this with the resistor supplier to make sure it can handle that? Still not sure if this confirms that a 1 ohm/50W resistor will be OK??


You will need a 1.6 ohm resistor and 50W will be OK.


Thanks mate. Note that this is the resistance at 6v. Would that therefore mean that if I am swapping over to 12v (using the ohms law equation) I would need a 3.2 ohm/50W? I am assuming that the amp draw is the same for 6v or 12v.

AA003 - December 15th, 2011 at 02:35 PM

You already have 1.6 ohms.

psimitar - December 17th, 2011 at 12:45 AM

The resistor must match the resistance of the motor or semaphore to soak up the extra 6v. Watts=volts x amps so 50w is ok but still will give off a lot of heat so needs to have plenty of air around it.

Aussie - December 17th, 2011 at 09:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by psimitar
The resistor must match the resistance of the motor or semaphore to soak up the extra 6v. Watts=volts x amps so 50w is ok but still will give off a lot of heat so needs to have plenty of air around it.


Cool. I have ordered some from RS - they are only $2.99 each with free postage!! Have ordered one for the wiper motor also as a back up plan (2.2ohms/50W). Still looking at getting an armature when they are back in stock.

Aussie - December 19th, 2011 at 07:26 PM

Resisters arrived today. Hooked the 2.2ohm up to the wiper motor and it works perfectly. Does get hot though - too hot to touch afetr about 30sec. Just need to decide whether to run with this or get the armature. Armature might give me a bit more peace of mind if I get caught in the rain but not sure if this alone justifies the extra $.

Semaphores work fine but a little slow and dont seem to stand quite to full attention :lol: The 1.5ohm resister measures 1.9ohm on my multimeter. Thinking that maybe I could drop down to a 1ohm resister to give things a bit more juice. According to my previous calcs the semaphores draw 3.7amps but reducing the resister would then feed approx 5 amps to the semaphores. Anyone see any issues with that?

donn - December 20th, 2011 at 05:51 AM

http://www.vollks.com.au/store/VOLTAGE-DROP.html 

AA003 - December 20th, 2011 at 07:16 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Aussie
Semaphores work fine but a little slow and dont seem to stand quite to full attention :lol: The 1.5ohm resister measures 1.9ohm on my multimeter. Thinking that maybe I could drop down to a 1ohm resister to give things a bit more juice. According to my previous calcs the semaphores draw 3.7amps but reducing the resister would then feed approx 5 amps to the semaphores. Anyone see any issues with that?


You need a 1.6 ohm resistor.

psimitar - December 23rd, 2011 at 07:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Aussie
Resisters arrived today. Hooked the 2.2ohm up to the wiper motor and it works perfectly. Does get hot though - too hot to touch afetr about 30sec. Just need to decide whether to run with this or get the armature. Armature might give me a bit more peace of mind if I get caught in the rain but not sure if this alone justifies the extra $.

Semaphores work fine but a little slow and dont seem to stand quite to full attention :lol: The 1.5ohm resister measures 1.9ohm on my multimeter. Thinking that maybe I could drop down to a 1ohm resister to give things a bit more juice. According to my previous calcs the semaphores draw 3.7amps but reducing the resister would then feed approx 5 amps to the semaphores. Anyone see any issues with that?


The postage was the most expensive part of the armature but at the current exchange rate it's still good value at $70 all up plus like I said the resistor will just become a little heater and burn itself out within a few months or maybe a few years as components are porrly made these days and won't last like they used too.

As for the semaphores the increased current will burn the solenoid out very quickly. When I'm back in Oz and have finished re-winding my semaphores for 12v then I can give you a PM and see if you want me to do yours too :) until then let them be a little limp to save the expense of new ones or an auto electrician who knows how to rewind DC coils ;)

Aussie - December 23rd, 2011 at 08:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by psimitar

The postage was the most expensive part of the armature but at the current exchange rate it's still good value at $70 all up plus like I said the resistor will just become a little heater and burn itself out within a few months or maybe a few years as components are porrly made these days and won't last like they used too.

As for the semaphores the increased current will burn the solenoid out very quickly. When I'm back in Oz and have finished re-winding my semaphores for 12v then I can give you a PM and see if you want me to do yours too :) until then let them be a little limp to save the expense of new ones or an auto electrician who knows how to rewind DC coils ;)


Thanks mate - that would be awesome :no: