Legitimate question.

Many websites claim you can but I have learned the hard way that you should believe nothing you read (particularly on the web) and only half of what you see.
My parents always said the "...if it sounds to good to be true" but still I ask you tech gurus this-

Can you supplement your VW on hydrogen and oxygen from water?

Some relevant links:
http://www.runyourcarwithwater.com 
http://www.spiritofmaat.com/archive/feb2/carplans.htm 
http://water4gas.com/2books.htm 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mkegEX0oQk 
http://www.greentechgazette.com/index.php/hydrogen-cars/run-your-car-on-water/ 
http://www.waternogas.com/ 
..and about 1,320,000 more pages

you can build a hydrogen fuel cell that is a big battery powered by water. Then put in an electric engine

law of physics: There is no such thing as free energy.
In petrol the energy is stored as chemical energy in the molecular bonds. Energy is released when the petrol is burned, as the final products (CO2 + H2O) have less energy than the the petrol. ie final state has less energy than starting state so difference is released and used to turn engine. But around 70% of energy released is lost as heat, noise etc and is not turned into kinetic energy.

With this water as fuel bullshit you are raising the water to a higher energy state (HHO) by adding energy in the form of electricity, you then burn it and turn it back into H2O, releasing the energy you just added. So, even in a perfect system there is no net energy change to use to turn the engine, all the energy you liberate is required to create more fuel (HHO). This gets even worse in the real world as each time you change state you loose some energy, when you look at how many changes of state there are between water as fuel and turning the engine, you have a lot of losses.

Where does the energy to electrolyse the water come from? the battery
Where does the energy to charge the battery come from? the generator (or alternator)
Where does the energy to spin the gen/alt come from? the engine
Where does the energy to spin the engine come from? petrol (or diesel)

I'm sure somebody can give a more scientifiic explanation, but this is shit any high school physics student should know.

I have read about Hydrogen Fuel Cells but the technology is too expensive to retrofit and supply fuel (Via stations) to mainstream users.

Another couple of interesting links:
Historical:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIkHZToNqqw&feature=related 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Meyer 

Before this heats up as I can see there is going to be two side to the coin here I should ask people to keep it topical and not personal.

I have a fair understanding that perpetual motion cannot exist although there are people playing with magnets that would like to argue this but still there are so many average ordinary Joes claiming that savings are being made and they don't seem to be getting paid off by some internet scam.

I have been reading about the Aptera car and they are claiming mileages of 120 miles per gallon by converting petrol energy into electricity for propulsion.

I guess the best way to find out would be to try it myself however I thought it would be a good idea to ask some people here first to see what the consensus might be before I have a go.

B
Link- http://www.aptera.com 

i was reading about a long distance race and the car returned over 5500km/L wich sounds rather good a lot better than the 12km/l my civic gets

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend and didn't mean anything personal.

There's a big difference between filling a car with hydrogen and burning that and trying to create the hydrogen you are going to burn on board.

As I originally said, an internal combustion engine is only about 30% efficient at best. So if we can get 30-35MPG out of a conventiional internal combustion engine, if we can improve the efficiency we could get at least 3x the mileage. So 100MPG is possible, we just have to figure out a better way to use the energy in the petrol.

Just remember, there is no free energy. Even hydrogen fuel cells require large amounts of energy to make the hydrogen in the first place.

every speck of energy we have today originally came from the "big bang"...i dunno what they used before that

Not exactly running on water but water injection was touted back in the 70's and early 80's not instead of petrol but in addition to it and I believe it was used in Formula 1. The reasoning behind it was for fuel economy because only about 50% of the fuel going in was actually used through detonation and so water vapour going in would take the place of the unused fuel and also cool the combustion chamber. As it didn't stick around too long I guess it didn't work.....then again the 6 wheeled Elf Tyrrell disappeared without a trace as well

Water injection was used to control detonation, and some old skool turbo set-ups have small amounts of water injection under boost. I am not totally sure how it worked, but I am guessing that as the mixture compresses the water would turn to steam and the latent heat of vapourisation of that steam would help keep the air / fuel mixture a little cooler so it didn't detonate as easily.

thats clever!

Takes the ping outta dat one.

There is a story going around about the hydrogen powered rail buggy in the US that Meyer's had designed and invented... Regardless, as it is said though, u need electricity to obtain hydrogen, and as said too, where do we get our electricity from.

But the story was intersting anyways, if anyone has a link, please do share. If anyone has heard what i am talkin bout.

COM'ON! LCA MAAAAANNNNNNNN

There is a kit available that turns water into hydrogen and is injected into your air filter. it draws a minimum of 6 amps from your battery. It is a small amount and does help with better fuel economy. Up here in Brisbane you can get one for about $70. I know a guy at work who has one fitted and swears by it but i don't know if anyone has tried it on a vw

http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/1802932.html?page=4

That link mentions the water injection, and it also mentions one of the hydrogen generators.

Manufacturers claims "AquaTune is like no other water injection system in that it is, in actuality, a fuel cell hydrogen processor. It produces hydrogen-rich bubbles before being introduced into the engine draft." and "25 percent increase in fuel economy and up to a 30 percent increase in horsepower. "

Popular Mechanics test result "With the AquaTune adjusted according to the instructions, the test truck gave us 20 fewer horsepower and about a 20 percent poorer fuel economy."

The problem with water injection on a motor that doesn't need it is that it has a negative effect. Cooling the combustion temperatures results in less power and economy. Your engine should be run as hot as possible to get the best economy. The Davies Craig water pumps have a feature to assist with this, they have an "economy" setting, where it slows the water pump to raise engine temperatures and get better economy, and a "power" setting where it keeps the engine cooler so it doesn't overheat when getting thrashed.

heres that old add Wes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XUKOUbp_PA 

water injection can lead to improved fuel economy if setup right
i started to set it up on my bug so i could run more boost but hit a few obstackles i havent bothered sorting yet

but theres some really good info on a bloke call robert manns website

check it out

http://www.dave-cushman.net/misc/mannject.html 

Thanks for finding that ad.

Here's an excellent history / description of water injection from a reputable looking company. They only recommend it for boosted applications. Be careful of slightly NSFW photo down the bottom of the page in the DIY section;
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/waterinjection.html

And a whole forum dedicated to the subject if your bored. I had a quick look in the economy section, and there didn't appear to be any evidence of better economy with water injection;
http://www.waterinjection.info/

I reckon you could run your car on water for about 15-20 metres. It depends on your angle of entry and how fast you're going.

like this;
http://www.idkwtf.com/videos/latest-videos/jeep-drives-on-water-top-gear

ha ha. Yes an oldy but a goody. Only in Iceland.

Tested myself. Running my car on water. Great, smaller expenses, better mileage. Ever wondered converting car to run on water? http://convertcartorunonwater.info/

oh wow thanks awefully for sharing
we'd all just love to see the results from ur testing...

spam off jerk

Now i did some heavy research into this a few months back, Back in WW2 they had tanks and trucks that ran entirely on water (with salt iirc) that got turned to hydrogen and then put into a modified engine other reports stated it was a water and somethign called naptha. But i also remember the downside of the burning hydrogen/water was that it oxidizes the metal and makes it brittle.

Naphtha is like a fuel oil. So I assume that is what the tanks were really running on.

I built my self a hho drycell and it was capeable of pumping out 1.3 lpm so i dont know but it is possible.