Hey all!

I finally got Zelda started, with all the parts attached and everything. I got her around the block by just taking my foot slowly off the clutch...

Every single time I put my foot on the accelerator, the engine sounded like she was going to cut out, as if the carbs were flooding and what not.

I only just installed a dual EMPI 34 setup as people are probably aware. Now, they need to be tuned very much so as you can probably tell from my experience above. I'm going to assume it is just a tuning issue, but I can't rule out something else.

But, what I need to know is, how does one actually tune them?

If I can get them tuned enough to actually drive her to get the engine looked over by someone else then I should be all good.

First think before tuning the carbies is to make sure that your points gap and timing are set correctly. And do a valve set on the engine.
You want to make sure that everything on the engine is set right before you start messing around with the carbs. Cause if something is out of adjustment then it's going to throw your carbs out too.

I'm not sure how the Solexs differ from the Kadrons as they are the only duel carbies that I've tuned.

With the Kadrons you remove the linkage, set your idle so it's running evenly on both carbies. Then adjust your mixture.


Smiley

http://www.redlineweber.com/html/Tech/34_ICT_tunning.htm 

http://cbperformance.com/weberict.asp 

Alrighty,

After removing the old vacuum advance distributor and putting in one without it, getting all the timing done correctly to 7.5 degrees and firing order correct, this is how she's running.
I uploaded another video, you can see it here.

I haven't tried tuning them yet Bizarre, but thanks a lot for the links! Will definitely see what I can do, just need to be able to get her drivable and then I can get her to a mechanic to get a look over... Her oil needs to be changed as well. Could this have any reason as to why she's running so terrible?

from the CB site
"Make sure to use the gaskets supplied in this kit. They work a lot better that thin paper gaskets or steel gaskets"

The steel ones leak. They are crap.

By balance I mean 2 things
The mixtures and idles speed screws need to be set.
This is done with the linkage disconnected

Then you need to make sure the linkeage opens equally

It is all explained in the CB link

Thanks Bizarre, just read through the CB link in more depth, only glanced over it before.

The steel ones will have to do unfortunately. I don't have the time to get the carbs out and the manifolds out to get to replacing them.
It might be something that I can do once I actually get the car moving a bit more...
I did however take her out for a quick spin around the block again, this time after timing her and everything, she definitely ran a lot smoother.
I was able to accelerate, but it was causing her to splutter and all types of things, so I just eased off the clutch and let her roll. So glad I don't live where any hills are...

Will take a look at everything tomorrow evening, too dark now and have to go to work tomorrow so won't be able to give it a shot till tomorrow night sometime.
There definitely isn't much room in the engine bay with those carbs on, I can only imagine how tricky it would be with some big Kadrons or Webers in there...

As for the balance tubes that are mentioned on the CB link, my manifolds that I have don't actually have anything that would cater for such a thing. I'm going to assume then, that this isn't applicable for the EMPI remakes of the Webers. Tomorrow night I'll take off the linkage and just get the carbs to the exact same. Then work from there.

From what I can gather from the CB link, it is definitely a time consuming procedure and will be worth every hour spent doing the tuning. If it means Zelda roars into life and is healthy and not lumpy and popping, then I will be over the moon. Sometimes I wish there were more VW people in Adelaide that knew their way around dual carbs and was able to give me a hand, but then again, I'm glad I'll be left to work it out myself as it is a massive learning experience!

If all else fails, I will send her into GHR some time next week and see what Siggi or Steve can do to help out.

lots of LU CK will be required as well

It almost sounds like I shouldn't have gone with the EMPI's from the beginning.
Unfortunately it was all that was available to me and even then, they aren't want I wanted, just put them on to get Zelda underway...
The only reason we ended up putting them on was because the manifold that I had for the 1600 didn't have the correct pre-heat tubes and therefore we just jumped the gun and installed a dual carb setup. I want to keep dual carb though, but don't want any more dramas.

What do people recommend I get instead of running these EMPI's?
Links would be appreciated, I don't want anything big, I don't need anything big as the engine will stay a stock 1600.

I think, from what I can find, is that Webers are the way to go?

simple straight up" Kadrons " are great for a stock 1600

I can't seem to find any Kadrons on any of the online VW stores.
Tried CIP1, vwparts, JustKampersAustralia, ClassicVeeDub and Vollks.

All EMPI...

Going to try and get these tuned over the weekend, will report back if successful or not.

4 get the WEB and pick up the phone you would have got a BETTER deal from VVDS webbers 02-9789-1777

and you wont be wasting yr money on a so call tune up if you can find some one to do it

Alright, I'll give a few people I know around here a buzz that might know what to do when it comes to tuning them.

If all else fails, I'll give VVDS a call and see what I can get.
Appreciate your help vw54!

We shall see what tomorrow comes up with!

Give Rod Penrose a call. I bought some Kadrons off him last year at a nice price. He should be able to post them to you.

http://www.lowbugget.com/main_page.html 

Contacted Peter DeBiasi.

He is coming to pick Zelda up next Tuesday morning and taking her to get her tuned.
Hope it doesn't cost me a fortune, but really, I just want to get Zelda back up and running.

Just stick with what your got and get her running..My 1916 is all ready to go in the wifes car just have to get Peter to pick it up once I've done some wiring. It is running twin 40mm HPMXs..Peters had good success and recommended using Empi carbs. If the engine builder has ran them before and got good results..then Ill stick to the HPMXs.How many people that bag Empi carbs have actually owned, fitted and used them themselves?..If i get too bored ill just go injection perfection IDFs and go injection..

Snitz, definitely sticking with what I got and hopefully Peter can resolve the current issue.

I will report back on Tuesday after he's picked her up and seen what is wrong. Hopefully it isn't an expensive fix, but really, at the moment I just want her to start and to be able to drive her to work and home every day.

Soon, soon I'll get to drive her again!

A friend of mine had a problematic set of these on a near stock 1640 I did for him.
Once the carbs were cleaned out, float levels set, and butterflies set, not too far open,
we had to REDUCE the idle jet down to a 45 from the supplied 52s.
A previously undrivable car was changed to a pleasure.
We actually soldered up the old jets and re-drilled them, with a plan to buy the correct size once it was deternined,
but that has never happened.

The fuel pressure was also found to be very touchy.
backing it down to 1.5psi was close,
and then a 1/2 psi change at a time, was found to get the sweet spot between flooding and starving at full noise.

Dangerous,
I am glad it's not just me that has had issues with these.

I'm curious though, what is actually a recommended dual carb setup on a stock 1600 or is it just not worth the effort and I should go back to single?
I'm just tossing up my options.

Found a carb specialist down the road from where I'm currently living.
Booked Zelda in for next Wednesday. He'll rejet and all of that if he has too, balance them and all of that too.

Now I'm kinda excited that I have her back.
She's running a lot better with the new fuel pump, the fan shroud has been blocked off too which is cool.
Just need to get me a Vintage Speed exhaust now.

Thinking about giving the tune up a shot myself...
Going to follow the CB Performance guide. If it goes wrong, I'm still taking her to the guy on Wednesday.

if it goes right, then I'll be cancelling that booking and will be over the moon knowing I did it myself!

thats the attitude

Okay, I have no idea what the hell is going on, but I think I need to clarify something.

I got DeBiasi to take a look. He tuned them and I paid him for his work. Sure, he told me he had issues tuning them, but I still paid him. He towed Zelda from my place to his and back again, that alone is worth what I paid him. Then I took her down to Siggi for the faulty fuel pump, that was all well and good and I got her back. I contemplated taking Zelda to a carb specialist down the street from GHR but never took her there. I also then contemplated taking her to a carb specialist down OG road but that never happened too.

Instead, I tried it myself. I got them working better than they were before and that is that.

What I don't understand though, is why I get a phone call before 9am from someone having a go at me for mouthing off on the forum about his carb shop?
I didn't even mention the name of the carb specialist I was going to take her too, both of them, so this is what I don't understand at all.

I shouldn't have to deal with this shit. I think it's time to switch over to the Airmighty forum instead...

Really? That's rude. Especially if you didn't mention their name, or give them a bad rap. Well now you have a reason to give them a bad rap. If some business rang me and told me off for no reason, i'd spread the word. So spread the word.

Weather you choose to take your car to a preferred or recommended Carby Specialist is your decision. You are the customer at the end of the day. I personally have used Carburettor Sales and Service, Norfolk St. or Terrace down at Marion. They rebuilt my factory fitted weber on my TE Cortina and replaced the water operated choke. And also rebuilt the factory 4 barrell on my RX5 twice. I dont understand why a potential customer would be abused by a workshop wanting that customers business.If this is the case and true then the un-named workshop is going to lose business with antics like that.

Any business that has provided me great service and goods I praise and recommend to anyone. If I have problems with a business or service I usually give them the benefit of the doubt and give them time to retify problems/issues etc but if the quality of service or goods is blatantly shit, I will tell them blatantly that they are shit. On a different note..anyone that wakes me up and abuses me would cop both barrells..Im not a morning person..

Snitz,
I went in and saw them last night on my way home. Everything seems fine between them and myself, they were are as annoyed as I was when it comes to someone making shit up or taking shit I've said the wrong way.

I will still recommend the OG Speed Shop to anyone. Len there is a gentleman and he enjoys teaching people what to do, not just doing it himself. He wants other people to learn and to not just do it for them. Him and I had a massive conversation last night which probably was one of the best conversations I've had in a long time when it comes to engine inner-workings and how carbs work. He his definitely full of information and like I said, I'll still recommend OG Speed Shop to anyone on this side of town that is need of a carb specialist.

Trust me, if they had of caught me on any other day I would have let it fly, the night before my brother did a runner and I spent from 11pm till 4am driving Zelda around trying to find him. Think Zelda is a bit worse for wear afterwards, she struggles to start now, have to be very gentle on the accelerator. Time for those Kadrons I think. And then if I have issues with them then I'll go to Len and he can give me a hand and teach me in person what to do.
I always want to learn.

I just don't understand what I said that was so misleading and that someone read so wrong. Makes no fucking sense to me.