watercooled turbo q
rubyred - July 27th, 2005 at 05:46 PM
hi, what did you guys do with the watercooling system of the turbo on the ej20? the radiator is up front, and so is the burp tank, and filler. id
rather not have a 2nd filler in back and burp tank. im talking about the black plastic one that bolts to the intake manifold. Can i just block both
ends, ie the one at the block, and the one at the waterpump? i doubt ill need the watercooling of the turbo.
any help greatly appreciated.
-Ryan
tassupervee - July 27th, 2005 at 08:00 PM
Why would you "doubt" youll need watercooling of the turbo?
Watercooled turbos are designed to run....well watercooled.
L8tr
E
boof2332 - July 28th, 2005 at 02:20 AM
You will have to move that filler tank as it will hit the engine bay in a bug. Unless you have your radiator higher than the back of the motor...you
tank and filler will be at the highest point..the back. I Just have a turn valve bleeder on my radiator in case some air gets trapped. You cannot just
block off watercooling pipes. The turbo water needs to drain back somewhere. There is also an expansion bottle off the filler/tank to take the
expanding volume and allow air to escape.
Matt
rubyred - July 28th, 2005 at 06:15 AM
i thought of that, but after reading how the watercooling of the turbo works, it dosnt constantly run water through it, that would seem pointless. it
actually only pulls water through it when the engine is shut off, so you dont need to let it idle or get a turbo timer. alot of the wrx guys upgrade
to t3/t4 turbos and they dont have watercooling.
im pretty sure my radiator up front, with the filler, is the highest point in the water system.
rubyred - July 28th, 2005 at 06:39 AM
alright, so lets say i do put the watercooling back on. do i have to raise that little black coolant tank so that the cap is the same height from the
ground as the front radiator cap?
boof2332 - July 28th, 2005 at 08:11 AM
If your radiator sits in the bottom of the wheel well, shouldnt it be lower than the fill tank. Most of us have no filler cap at the front, only at
the rear. If you have a cap at the front just keep them both...have the lowest one as a non pressure release cap with the expansion tank next to the
high one.....
There must be some benefit in maintaining the watercooled turbo, otherwise Subaru wouldnt use them on the race cars. The sti turbos are watercooled
also, and I thought they had constant water flow.
Matt
speedster356 - July 28th, 2005 at 12:26 PM
I've had the radiator cap off whilst the engine is running, at the time the level was low in the tank and I could see a flow from the turbo into the
tank. I would expect to see a flow only when the engine is running.
You could run an uncooled turbo, but you might have to pay attention to the way you go about your cooldown.
tassupervee - July 31st, 2005 at 08:21 PM
Quote: |
Originally
posted by rubyred
i thought of that, but after reading how the watercooling of the turbo works, it dosnt constantly run water through it, that would seem pointless. it
actually only pulls water through it when the engine is shut off, so you dont need to let it idle or get a turbo timer.......
|
errrrrrr M8, can you show me the documentation or the source that leads you to believe this?
Water is drawn thru watercooled turbos by a pressure differential by siting the turbo in a water line between somewhere upstream of the thermostat and
immediately in front of the water pump.
Exactly the same setup as a cabin heater.
What your asking me to believe is that the waterin a Suby sits pretty much stagnant in a tubo and only runs thru it via a thermosyphon effect after
the engine is shut down.
Are you aware as to how hot a turbo core actually gets? It will reach temps exceeding 800 deg. C, and glows a beautiful shade of white when it really
hot. This one shown below is not that hot but i have seen one so hot that you can clearly see the impeller thru the white hot and translucent zorst
housing!!!!!
http://www.ozsuperkart.net/images/XR6-T.jpg
This is probably just slightly above the boiling point of water that is just sitting there. How can having cooling water running thru the hot turbo be
pointless?
This is crap, the water will boil and aerate the coolant as soon as the core temp exceeds 120 Deg C or so and this happens less than minutes after
initial startup.
Just as the oil with boil and burn in a red hot turbo if the engine is shut down immediately after a hard run or the oil drain hose becomes
blocked.
Thats why you bother to keep the engine going immediately after a very hard blast, just to simply keep oil flowing thru the core to remove heat from
the shaft and bearings.
Yes, those dudes do eschew the water cooling as they fit NON water-cooled turbos. Thats simple really.
L8tr
Enn[ Edited on 31/7/05 by tassupervee ]
rubyred - August 6th, 2005 at 03:17 PM
Quote: |
errrrrrr M8, can you show me the documentation or the source that leads you to believe this?
|
TurboByGarrett.com
Quote: |
To minimize the effects of heat soak-back, water-cooled center housings were introduced. These use coolant from the engine to act as a heat sink
after engine shutdown, preventing the oil from coking. The water lines utilize a thermal siphon effect to reduce the peak heat
soak-back temperature after key-off. The layout of the pipes should minimize peaks and troughs with the (cool) water inlet on the low side. To help
this along, it is advantageous to tilt the turbocharger about 25° about the axis of shaft rotation.
|
-Ryan
tassupervee - August 6th, 2005 at 07:01 PM
Well theres an interesting take on things. Evidently, im not too old to be told something.......
Where does this particular bit of advertising actually appear?
L8tr
E
rubyred - August 7th, 2005 at 05:09 AM
Quote: |
TurboByGarrett.com
|
Turbo Tech--->Turbo Tech 101, scroll 1/2 down, Oil & Water Plumbing
rubyred - August 9th, 2005 at 07:49 AM
Is there any advantage in the coolant system if the burp tank is near the engine vs all the way in front of the car next to the radiator?
Thanks alot,
-Ryan
VWCOOL - August 9th, 2005 at 10:33 AM
Quote: |
Originally
posted by rubyred
Is there any advantage in the coolant system if the burp tank is near the engine vs all the way in front of the car next to the radiator?
Thanks alot,
-Ryan
|
Yes. you MUST have a burp tank higher than the engine... and with NO 'downhill' pipes between it and the engine. As for a non water-cooled water
cooled turbo...the WRX/VW conversion I did had flow 100 percent of the time. I'll make this really simple and save you a lot of head-scratching and
$: you must retain water to the turbo and rear-mounted burp tank plumbed to original engine pipes/ports. No ifs, no buts
rubyred - August 9th, 2005 at 04:21 PM
ya, im a newbie when it comes to watercooling, ive grown up with aircooled, and i guess its just an instinct of mine to make things simpler or less
complex, because of the overall simplicity of the vw engine.
the turbo will stay watercooled. i will hook up the stock black tank that the turbo goes to, and from there hook up a burp tank setup. the radiator
up front will have no burp tank.
i am assuming that it doesnt matter that my front radiator is higher than the coolant reservior/burp tank in the back because the whole system is
under pressure correct? As long as it is higher than the engine. but correct me if im wrong.....
thanks a bunch guys,
-Ryan
dubbill - August 9th, 2005 at 04:29 PM
alls good as long as your point of fill isthe highest point of the complete system