Hia all.

Is everyone ready for chrissi?? 50something days.

Anyhow, i have read many a post on different forums about speed sensors and devices used to map it etc. I am not understanding why one needs one?

I mean, in the daily driver 89 Caravelle GL is an EJ25 NA from a 2001 outback. I am pretty bloody sure there is no such device on vehicle. There is no magnet adapted gadgets on CV's or at rear of speedo.
Do i really need one?

What if i don't have one; whats the damage scenario?
Is there a downside to this?

Speedo works fine maybe 5k's shy of true 100 but works fine. Apart from around town speed under 60kmhr when needle bounces a bit, that's slack on the cable in grease cap.

Cheers all

I THINK the VSS in this engine was in the speedo/near the speedo. (Have a look at circuit diagrams.)

If the revs get high but the CPU has no evidence the car is moving it gets worried! It needs to know the vehicle IS moving. The VSS is for just that purpose. The brain decides that it will cut engine revs by a factor of 2 if the car isn't moving at high revs. It is a bit disconcerting when one is accelerating hard during passing, believe me! Also many people have had issues with the engine stalling when coming to a halt at lights etc.

If your vehicle doesn't demonstrate these characteristics it MAY have a VSS emulator (just gives regular ticks to the CPU if it doesn't have a VSS itself. I'd be surprised if there weren't something there.
Dave




is

OK cheers.

No. Vehicle does what is asked and does it bloody well.
Awesome acceleration, no stuttering, stalling, konking out etc. Often gotta back off due to wheel spin on take off, really poor rubber, oh sat away from Nankangs, absolute crap all round even worse in the wet.
Speedo sort of reads true, as explained.

I will have to get vehicle info this just isn't helpful not knowing what was done and what wasn't during conversion. I am always guessing, very annoying. Under rear seat is Brains ECU, ignition barrel + key, another 2 small components, I will get pics on the weekend.


I will post pic of engine. I am aware of missing items but pics will, should explain better.

Andrew

hi, sounds like you have the subaru speedo installed? before i fitted the subaru complete dash to my EJ22 kombi it wanted to stall when coming to a halt...sweet as now and even better with a new exhaust gas thingy(EGO?) oh yeah...get some 16" rims and fat rubber

yeah VSS is important as it helps (generally in EFI cars)

idle anticipation to prevent stalling as vehicle slows to a stop; fuel economy when due to 'closed loop' oxygen sensor feedback to the fuel injectors' duration when cruising at steady speed; plus 'over-run fuel cut off' such as when driving down a hill with your foot off the pedal

It might go good now... but be even betterer with a functional VSS

No; stock VW speedo.

I am waiting for the daily driver to stay still long enough so as to have a really good look over the vehicle and take pics.

But as far as i am aware there is no VSS, maybe there is but it isn't as evident as some suggest.
It's gotta have one, there are no poor symptoms, stalling, over rev, etc

I dont have a VSS and have only noticed a slight stumble sometimes coming to a hault. This only happens when in the morning as the cold start enrichment is coming down, after a couple minutes running.
Other than that my EJ20T runs great gets good milage and the overrun fuel cut works right.
However my engine is quite old maybe a 94, ive heard early engines arnt so finicky about missing sensors. But its been working fine in my car for 10 years now, with no flashing codes at all. Maybe the ECU has learned to live with out it.

yours is a 93 Mark , last of the RS turbos ( two bolt coil packs )

Had issues not running a vss with my 92 legacy / liberty turbo motor . would go into limp mode if reved passed 3g or so and eng light would come on . So fitted subi speedo in place of original and all good .

Ahh may sound very stupid, but i am cool, i know i am.

Fitting the Subi Speedo is problem solver?

What is rev range on EJ25 NA 2001 Outback? Stock VW Tacho is 5G Redline i think, don't really take much notice i just change when there is no more uumph.

Mech Changed Timing belt today, I got Lazy. But definitely no VSS on board.

CHOPPA, your sounds similar to myn cold start up idle is as low as maybe 500RPM. But after quick warm-up all is good. Steady 800RPM.
Issue started when i read this http://www.weidefamily.net/vanagon/HTML/05/05/08/01.html 
And after consulting the Work Shop Manual i found no such adjuster on-board. I figured i was missing something and then maybe article refers to older engines. But I am missing the Subaru Throttle return setup.

Here are some pics.

Yes there random files but i am sure most know what they are looking at.









U can see why i have to shove the K&N setup on. The original subi airbox is in air cavity, it's jammed in there somehow. Lotsa fun to remove.






Wiring




Could it be that not having the idle solenoid and a VSS is making the engine rev out at start up? I mean when i actually placed the IS in correct spot engine went straight up to max revs, i stopped it before it got near 3G but is it a sound theory.

My engine as seagull says is an early with the coils on the spark plugs.
So may be different to yours. Im pretty sure I dont have an IAC.
But my engine fires straight up to about 1200 in morning. Then shortly after slows to a constant 800rpm. Ive made no adjustments to it, ever.

In your pics it doesnt seem to have the OE throttle mech. And I cant see a TPS. Im thinkin if your running the OG ECU your gonna need a TPS.

Cant be much more help sorry. Old age u know!

Nice install though.

U know what i cant remember for looking. but i am uncertain if there is a TPS onboard.
I am going to investigate further on weekend.
I am looking to buy another throttle body soon maybe after Christmas. Any EJ25 throttle body should do yeh?

Yeh myn has no cold start, that's a action i do manually.

Cheers, as u can tell i was almost looking in the wrong direction.
Not my install. Yan from Wolfsburg motors Sydney. I just bought it cheap..

I only had the engine bars re modeled so as to fit Bug@5speed shortened sump. Originally not wide enough to clear shortened sump. Still thats a mission for another story.

I probably do somewhere.
But it definitely ain't hooked up.

Previous owner did conversion so i am slowly addressing minor issues. I am coming up to speed on what i do and don't have on this engine.

The cold start valve is what, where, hooks up to what and so on?

I am in deep before chrissi.
Just put a new rad in Syncro couple bucks there.

Cold start (or rather the 'start') is normally a wire that runs from the starter solenoid to the ECU.
Helps heaps!

You say it's a 2001 donk
How do you do it "manually"?

Not being *errrm* horrid here but your engine bay looks like a right old abor^H^H^H^H mess.

What's the welded castellated nut?
Who did this conversion? (re-read, previous owner)

I hope someone over there can sort you out bud. Pay for my ticket & I'll try my damned hardest!


It looks like a right ol' bodge job.

Starter Solenoid. I will consult workshop manual gotta get that one sorted soon. Hope its an easy sort.

Yeh 2001 Outback.
Manually = Start car sit foot on throttle and sit revs at about 11-1200Rpm for a bit. After that all's good sits comfortably at 800Rpm.

Welded Castlellated nut = Idle solenoid apparently P O (previous owner) couldn't get it too idle so removed idle solenoid and stuffed solenoid hole with rubber hose from air compressor then added smaller gauge maybe 8mm fuel hose and finally a 10-12mm bolt to jam it in tight. I have since added some thread tape and newer fuel hose. As after trying the IS in "real" position on throttle body engine revved it's head off and then i understood what P O was on about. So engine is stuck like this till i get it sorted.

Not sure on bodge job as PO did completely rebuild Gearbox "complete".

I think the 4 inch PVC drain pipe as air intake makes it look worse than it is. That and the bloody dust on engine. Bloody T3's always good for collecting dust. I am rectifying that very soon. Engine runs great, just small quirks.

I am pretty sure P O didn't do any splicing of wiring. Which is a problem because i am unsure as whether RPM and Temp readings are true. The last 2 Pics are the original Subi, ignition barrel, ecu and others.

Problem is as I never did the conversion, I am unsure if i want to re-do conversion. Friggin huge gig that.

I have just finished an ej20 turbo into 92 synchro and it ran like pig without the speed sensor we used a vdo unit thats on this site I thnk if and when you fit one it's like turning on 1/2 the power you didnt have but be aware if you cut up the standard subaru harness to use that you connect it to the speedo sensor wire not the cruise control sensor wire i did that and the after hours on the net & manuals realised the mistake bingo instnt 7000rpm compared to 4000 rpm contact me anytime to discuus conversion

FWIW, the IAC needs time to 'learn' where it is in relation to idle speed if the battery has been disconnected (such as when doing a transplant). Not sure about Subies but for instance in old Holdens, the idle speed is reset by holding engine at 3500+ rpm. This allows the PCM to cycle the IAC from full shut to full open, so it can figure out where it is in its travel to help it with idle control

Other aspects of engine control need time to re-learn, too - typically 50-100km after a transplant. There are significant drveability issues during this time

People who don't know this often disconnect thier IAC, thinking they have a fault because the engine is 'revving'. Then the need to crack open the throttle for idle air, upsetting the TPS that 'reports' an open-throttle condition to the PCM even though MAP is high... The result is a very confused PCM!

Holy shit so what u guys are saying is that Yan (pronounced yarn) the PO who did the conversion
could have possibly confused a high revving engine with a learning curve?

And thus removed or replaced throttle position sensor with bolt and rubber
hose to correct over revving at startup/idle for fear of blowing engine maybe.

I am really going to have to speak to the bloke and get the full plan as a confused PCM? sounds legit;
But i still don't have a SS hooked up to vehicle at either end of vehicle.

PCM =???

ErniNorley
see yours is different to myn also being that vehicle runs fine
I mean i really have nothing to compare it to other than the old wasserboxer 2.1.
So power of the subi seems correct or normal.

PCM = Powertrain Control Module