I know you're saying "Huh?", and wondering why someone with an EA81 could possibly want one. Well, it's like this;

I discovered that the cruise control in our dead Magna is pretty much an independent system and it looks like it may also support manual transmissions. besides switches etc. to monitor the pedals and three control buttons, all it really needs is a VSS.

The Mitsubishi VSS seems to supply 4 pulses per revolution. Even though the VW runs larger wheels I know I could get away with something compatible if it were just cruise.
I would be more than happy with more pulses per revolution as I'm pretty sure I could make a conversion box without too much hassle which would let me calibrate based on wheel circumference too.

What was I getting at? Oh yeah. I discovered that the much sought after digital gauge cluster from out 1st gen Magna fits in the VW gauge cluster hole nicely with space on the side for the cold air lever. Besides needing a whole pile of blade connectors, the cluster seems pretty compatible as its signals are raw. Even the tach is a coil feed. The only difference is the electronic speedo.
My thinking is this would be a fiddly but easy install and would allow me to eliminate all the gauges sticking out from holders around the place.

So far I'm only speculating, but so far the only issue I can see is with the speedometer needing a pulse.

I know the photo is in my thread but here it is for reference.

So it hasnt got an ordinary speedo cable input on the back?

nearly all the 80s digital LCD clusters like the elante/elite magnas, subi vortex, toyota soarer etc used a normal speedo cable and the VSS was inside the cluster.

Easiest solution would be a proximity sensor and a wheel of death like I've got, you just need to find out if it needs an NPN or a PNP signal but nearly all back then were NPN.

Mr Failure,
Im am not familiar with your engine,but this cable driven vss may interest you.
http://www.rjes.com/html/vss.html 
I did think that pre ej25 98-01 did not require a vss.
I am using the second one that mounts to the back of a T3/T25 speedo.
All good, no fault codes or engine light.

Joel: No speedo input. just VSS. The digital cluster got its signal from the tranny. The analog had a cable and a reed switch for cruise.

Ah... do you mean like low-high-low as opposed to high-low-high? Just asking because NPN and PNP are different substrate arrangements in a transistor which could also be valid.

Thanks for the link Ben386. That info is solid gold with the speedo cable fitting. My engine is something very simple and not far removed from an ACVW engine. The VSS isn't remotely necessary as-is. But I do have this nice cruise control system just sitting there and a set of instruments which by sheer coincidence will fit pretty easily into the dash. I'm at a halt with the resurrection right now anyway because I'm out of $ and resources so a bit of a side project seemed interesting.

Another question. I know ages back an instrumentation swap didn't require engineering as long as the new speedo had an odometer. is that still the case?

I can't find anything on needing certification to shove this cluster in. Am I missing something? Still not sure I want to do it, but it is a "bolt on" mod of sorts. No alteration to the original vehicle is necessary. Well, almost none. I figure I might have to move the (non functional) knee vent / top vent control. I'd probably do that with a choke cable kit and put it in line with the other knobs, and put a lit toggle or pushbutton next to it labelled "Heat" which will drive the heater fan. Too hot (as if that could happen) open the front flap.

I like Joel's Wheel of Death" idea. I just hope the digital cluster doesn't need signal conditioning. I like the neatness of the VSS too. I don't know.

Does anyone see issue with me lopping off the magna gauge harnesses a half meter or so away from the connectors? I don't think I'd regret it because all the original VW connectors are blades anyway so I'd have no long cable runs.

What I might do next is photograph and label all the wires on the back of my VW cluster (a lot of additions imagine that!), unplug everything and ensure the Magna cluster does drop in. I tried flopping the cluster out yesterday but the wires are too short to get it out of the way. my steering wheel doesn't help either.

Stop mucking around and just put a reversed Subie box in. They already have the VSS !!!!!!!!!!

I'll check the manual to be safe, because the testing procedures for the VSS' are a real tell. But I'm 95% sure that they are NPN.

ttriebler, I would love to. Unfortunately the mucking about and cost required for that would be unbelievable. Putting cost aside, The EA81 would be pretty useless at pushing a bay with longer gearing around. Then it would need an adapter plate of some description anyway because my EA81 has one of those Sherman engine bellhousing replacements that have the VW stud pattern. Would certification be needed for a subie transmission? Once again, cost aside a huge nightmare. The closest engineer is interstate and 300 odd km away. the nearest NSW one is about 350km away so there is getting there and back too.

If no certification is needed and the EA81 would be okay with the subie box and I had an adapter and I could summon up the required $, yeah absolutely I'd love to! 5 gears would be awesome.

I was just joshing. I'm sure your setup is fine.

But you know an EA transmission case is identical to an EJ transmission case right? Except it has the EA bolt pattern. All the EJ goodies fit into the EA case. So no adaptor plate needed.

Your EA81 engine doesn't neeed a bellhousing. You unbolt the VW adapter plate and then bolt the EA81 engine straight up to an EA transmission.

Yep gotcha. I didn't think that they would have removed the ea bellhousing and made a new bellhousing to suit vw. Thought it would be an adapter plate fitted up like on the EJ's. The EJ's are part of the block. Anyways.....back to the VSS.....

Quote:

Originally posted by ttriebler Yep gotcha. I didn't think that they would have removed the ea bellhousing and made a new bellhousing to suit vw. Thought it would be an adapter plate fitted up like on the EJ's. The EJ's are part of the block. Anyways.....back to the VSS.....

GF there's a nice thread on here about VSS. Brantz do a nice one.
Ask EJ71Van if he's happy with his. Vauxhall/GM gearbox one fits the back of a Type 1 or Type 2 speedo - 4 pulses per wheel rev @ 5V (same on a bus as a Leggy ±5% IIRC)

Here ya go, just a $25 NPN proximity sensor and some scrap metal.

Will hit 14,000kms some time this week, never given me a problem and it's seen plenty of nasty weather but its supposedly water proof anyway.

With the frequency it can handle it's supposedly good for over 300mph.

I've had it to blinker light on a 160km/h speedo anyway.

Holy crap that thing is terrifying!

I'm thinking something like just getting a cheap pack of rare earth magnets, putting them round some part of the rotating assembly, maybe the bit that the CV bolts to on the transmission and using a reed switch or a hall switch (not just the sensor).When I get a few minutes I'm going to punch the tyre diameters of the van and the magna into a tyre calculator and see the circumference difference. If I'm lucky the VW has about 20% larger circumference. Why? Well I could put 5 magnets on instead of 4 and have the speed more or less right.

I also had another look at the Magna cluster diagram this morning. Bit off topic but it looks like it has a built in 7v regulated supply for the fuel sender. it's close enough to what the mean of what the VW vibrator outputs. I'm so tempted to go out there and hack the harness off as is and start wiring on relevant blade connectors. The 'cruiser heater is ready to be picked up at the post office soon I think so I have a real project item again, sort of. Besides testing it I can't do squat without piping besides plumb it in and sit it above the engine bay to make sure it works. Might be hard to believe but my bay's engine bay is starting to get cramped.

Hence it's name.

There are far more elegant ways to do it, in the front hub sensing the wheel bolts for example would be a neat way.
I just went for the easy solution and I also wanted it on the rear driving wheels so it didn't spack out on dynos when the front wheels aren't turning.

I did actually try the magnets and reed switch deal, worked briefly then failed miserably.



another subi conversion guy I know tried it too but using the subaru reed switch, same deal worked for a bit then stopped.

Quote:

Originally posted by Joel Hence it's name. There are far more elegant ways to do it, in the front hub sensing the wheel bolts for example would be a neat way. I just went for the easy solution and I also wanted it on the rear driving wheels so it didn't spack out on dynos when the front wheels aren't turning. I did actually try the magnets and reed switch deal, worked briefly then failed miserably. another subi conversion guy I know tried it too but using the subaru reed switch, same deal worked for a bit then stopped.

Nice work and photos Joel.Wheel of Death.I like it.Needs some red painted on it.

who needs to go above 70 anyway, hey?

I ran the tyre numbers on the calculator today and found out the curcumference difference between magna and VW is 5.38%. IIRC the magna has rubber slightly too small on it. I'll have to check its book. If so a standard 4 pulse sensor will do. I reckon it'll do anyway. Close enough.

edit: I used this calculator: http://www.brspecialtuning.co.uk/Tyre%20size%20calculator.htm

I pulled the VSS out of the Magna. Gregory's instructions had me pulling it out, shaft and all. It's just like a messed up distributor. The VSS just unscrewed off the top of it. Anyway the Magna VSS has a female screw thread and a male round shaft with a tab on it. Can I use this somehow, or is it in the too hard basket?

Joel, you got me thinking. I remember years back extracting the reed switches from reed relays. The long ones with the external coil. They'd probably be a much higher switching rate. I'm going to have a bit of a look at what's out there.

Going for an addition here. I found proximity sensors that look like Joels. However they need magnets. Are there magnets on the back of the wheel of death, or is something else going on there?

I just ordered a proximity sensor and some neodymium magnets. They should be here in under three weeks... probably. I know this all seems like an exercise in futility. maybe it is, but I like to experiment.

I just did a rough test fit on the drivers side. it would be fine except for the pivot that the heater control levers are on. Damnit. There are options. Either cut mine, find another or just make my own single bracket, which would probably be the easiest.

No matter what I'll make up what I need to patch it in to the electric and see if I can make it dance before anything is done.