ok i have plans for the baja of my dreams and i am collecting parts to build it.

the car will be powered by a 2 litre type 4 engine which required front discs for engineers.

what i would like to do it use the IRS fron my superbug pan (the pan is rusted like you wouldnt beleive and its just a parts car) and get another pan (pre 72 for non ADR compliancing) and assemble the IRS on it and use this as the basis for my baja. i want it all to be 4 stud and have front discs.

the car will also be running a 2 litre 6 rib box.

any way to the point. i take it that a disc brake kit for a king and link front end would be pretty exxy? is this correct?

and so even though ive got a king and link pan its not going to be cheap to get it front discs.

so plan B is to buy a 70ish swing axle ball joint pan and convert to IRS.

is there a major disadvantage in using a ball joint front end? cost of parts? height adjustability? strength? i dont want this thing to be in the clouds but i do want a decent amount of clearance for regular offroading and beach work.

opinions?

Nick

King and link is the best for hight, wheel travel and they are strong but i am for ever adjusting and greasing them.
My new one is ball joint with adjusters in it and it wont be as big as the one i have now but the one i have is bigger than all that i have seen. So if you want big go king and link but if you are not so crazy a ball joint sould be fine i wanted to get thing front spindels but im not sure if the back will go high enough to match but i can always wind it down

If you go ball joint 181 front you get around an extra 3 inches of lift above standard add to that an adjustable front and you will have all the height you need. As said link pin is good for height and travel especially if you get longer arms.
Here is a link to the Custom offroad disc brake link pin conversion.

http://www.customoffroad.com.au/partFull.asp?partid=16 

[Edited on 5-1-2005 by Andy42]

If You can find an Automatic Beetle chassis from 1968>

they had front disc brakes , ball joint front end...
and they had IRS rear end....



in the US ALL Beetles had IRS from 1969>
but they never ever had front disc brakes.....

Lee

Go with the ball joint type, unless your going to race it. Make sure you replace the torsion bearings with bushes though as the bearings will stuff the arms off road. The bushes are only $30ea (that’s $120 all up) and it stops bearing wear. Then later when you have the money go to 182 stubs.

[Edited on 5-1-2005 by Desert Moose]

there is an auto irs disk brake pan for sale in rocky for about $700. It has the clutch tube welded in and is fitted with a 2" lift kit.....all the hard work done bolt on a body and mechanicals and away you go!!

send me a message for more details

ahh yes well that would be all well and super mattie however

a) i dont have 700 dollars

b) i live many 100's of kilometers from rockhampton

c) well there is no c) but i felt it needed another point lol.

i wish i could buy that mattie but its not gonna happen.



sooooo balljoint pan it is then. shouldnt be very hard to find a swing axle ball joint pan with fron discs should it?

[Edited on 5-1-2005 by Anthiron]

I have one you can have if you come get it ...lol:P

dont tease me mate thats mean

I have $700 but there are two things stopping me.

1) The wife because - Well I don't know why but she just always stops me.
2) Well I though I needed a second reason too so I did the above. Yeah distance too.

Sounds like a good pan. 68 Auto is a good option but they are hard to come across. I'm waiting for the local newsagent to die so I can buy his Autobug that he delivers the papers in. Walk out Thursday morning hoping that my paper ins't there because he's carked it or better yet just written off the front end and preped it for me to Baja.

Would have to agree with the above. Mine is ball joint and I can hammer it in the dunes like you wouldn't believe. So many time I have hit a crest and/or hollow and thought - thats it, it must have folded up under the pan that on to find it perfectly fine. At worst i have bent tie rods, hence the lump hammer in the tool kit now.

King and Link, as is 181 would be the best but often not an option for many. I envy those with front disks and with the last decent down the Barrington Tops producing a beautiful buring smell I believe I have won the arguement to have a set installed.

Bronze.

I have a link pin torsion bar front end with disc brakes on my car...
The brackets to run calipers on a early front end using VW brakes can be bought from John at The Vee Dub Centre.. Not sure on the cost, but they were not expensive.. He can be contacted on (08) 9242 2808 and will probably freight them for you..
Ground clearance to lowest point on my pan is about 15 inches (with a full tank of fuel) and I have not been stuck by bottoming out, anywhere in this car...
Good luck with it...

[Edited on 11-1-2005 by WABaja]

Hi guys,
I currently have my semi auto balljoint IRS pan for sale, checkout this link http://www.aussieveedubbers.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=33958  .
It seems to be the way all offraoders are going to as the swing arms boxes keep on destroying themselves.

i have secured a semi auto pan for free its just minus the front end.


and swing axle boxes are tough as nails its just the better handling from IRS and the fact that if u put a 2 litre engine behind a 1600 type 1 box its going to blow it sooner or later.

your pan. sounds like a good deal. id buy it if i had 700. but i dont so ill just bide my time.

I have a pretty full on k & L front end that has so much travel it had to be limited to 13 inches so the tyres wouldn't hit the guards! Absolutley brilliant off road, soaks up bumps in the track like you wouldn't believe and is tough as nails. The downside is of course, it doesn't handle that well on road. If I was going to do it again, I'd probably stay ball joint, track down some 181 stubs, and put adjusters in the beams. This will give reasonable handling & strength, good travel and good height.

No reason link pin should not be good on the road as that is what the formula Vs run and they handle pretty bloody good.

Well if link pin arms are so weak I am surprised so many offroaders use them. I currently have a 181 front in the buggy and I am building and if I had the time over I would go to a long travel link pin front. They have many more advantages i believe. Also I am keen to know those of you saying the 181 fronts are the go what did you do for a disk brake adapter to make It a legal disc brake front.

I think it is bizarre to compare the handling of a very low and light formula vee to a very tall comparitively heavy baja. I just meant that it doesn't handle as well as a ball joint, which it doesn't.

buy a 4WD:duh

yeah - and compare the cross-section of link-pins to those of a BJ. No contest, really...

PM me for details on Type 181 disc brakes...

I have owned 2 linkpin type 1s, one a lowered 67 beetle that could go round round abouts like a go kart and give slow dunnydore drivers a shock, and the other, my current buggy that body rolls and understeers just like all buggies.

It's all about your set-up. However, that said, a link pin front end cannot be made to deliver mental negtive camber where a ball joint beam can. However, you don't need metal camber in offroad cars and, as many people have already said, heaps of offroad racer use linkpin beams.

Here's my two cents,
if you are gonna put a different pan under it, go late model balljoint, if you are keeping the current pan, stay king pin. You can make either good offroad, it just depends how mental you want to go and how much you have to spend.

PS. to everyone else, give terry a listen before jumping on him, he only builds offroad cars for a living. he may even know some thing.

It's quite simple. If you are going to keep it relatively stock and in a state where the authorities won't pull you over instantly, then ball joint is the way to go. Stock ball joint is stronger or certainly as strong as stock link pin. Ball joints take minimal maintenance. King and link pins take alot and are expensive to recondition.

If you have too much money and want to work the suspension, then king and link is the way to go. There is a huge aftermarket base for it. Longer arms, stronger parts, all make awesome racing front ends, but are generally completely illegal, and very very expensive. That's why they're used on race cars.

out of interest wes, what do you use on your car?

i wont be getting longer arms or any of that shizen. i just want to raise it up with adjusters so its got a decent ride height and i want front discs. stock brakes are ok ill fit a booster and keep drum rear thats fine.

just want IRS and disc front but i want it to be able to withstand a bit of punishment without huge mods.

i havent picked it up yet but ive got a semi auto pan minus a front end so i guess ill go balljoint.

what sort of mods do people on here run on their front ends? and what do u do with your car?

Wes has Ball Joint and will be putting his 181 front end on some day ....

If you go King and link you will need to modify your frame head to take advantage of the extra travel availible.

BJ gets about 6" of travel and King and Link gets about 9" . These are actual figures with tyres and guards on. The king and link get the extra 3" in down travel.

Maintenance wise king and link need regular grease and occasional adjustment. BJ need next to nothing intil their boots die and then they need new ball joints. BJ stub axles are slighty bigger and BJ tie rod ends are larger than most king and link tie rod ends. You can easily use BJ tie rod ends on K& L 's with a quick ream.

If I had BJ and wasn't after heaps of height BJ would be fine. If I want more height then I would go K&L

wes car has enough height for what i want. is he running a stock balljoint but just rasied a bit or are there other mods on his front end?

My front end is just raised a but with adjusters.

And while I had it out I put gussets on the shock towers, seam welded the pressed parts and put some down travel limiters on it. None of which effect height or travel, just add a little strength.

When I find where on earth I put my thing arms and spindles I'll organise getting them put on...