Hi Everyone,

I've been running the same engine for 10 years. I really need to get new pistons and rings and fix an oil leak. But that's all a bit boring.

Since I have 48 IDAs and a 1 5/8 berg exhaust and recently some CB 44 x 37 wedgeports I thought a bit of stroker action would help the air speed.

I'm thinking of adding a 76mm DRP crank and wiseco B pistons.

I have CB super race H beam rods which will reduce the case clearancing (apparently). I'll probably have to get the cylinders machined down (I think). What else? I've never built a stroker before.

What do y'all think?

Happy New Year.

CT

Hi CT
Can't believe you have had no responses?
Must be the time of the year.
If you can go bigger, do it.
Nothing beats cubes so, go the cubes where ever possible.
With cubes you can go mild with a good result or wild with a great result.
Having seen the quality of your car,on the couple of occasions we met, I'm sure this will spill over into your motor department .
I think the cam will be the most important factor in your equation as all the other components are sound.
Wish you luck.
Regards from Rene' in Adelaide
' the capital of speed cameras'

I'd definately do it, hell, why stop at 76? DPR aslo do a nice 78, still nice and strong, with mild clearancing, bigger will make those heads work better, you probably wont even need to machine the barrels with 78, but likely with 76.

Jeez ct, where the hell you been?

After watching Rene's footage over & over & over & over more cubes seem the way to go. Why stop at a 2110cc, why not bigger?

Laters

Got to be a good thing; even if outright power doesn't change the torque should be greater

Hi Everyone,

Call me captain conservative, but I don't want to do a "big build". I just want to evolve the combination of bits I've got. It's more like a hobby. I want to keep the same engine number that's on the engineer's certificate and not go too far beyond the original build.

I'm going to stick with the K8 for now even though I think it runs out of puff too soon. That way I'm not changing too many things at once so I know the effect of the changes. Besides I enjoy driving the oval to work occasionally and doing the odd road trip. I don't want to have a trailer queen.

Hi Rene,
I love the Legend Of The Lakes Hillclimbe video from inside your car. God it's quick. Your driving is great. I can't believe you go so hard with so much scenery to hit. Helmets off to you. I'd hate to drive your car because I'd probably get a taste of the horsepower and want the same.

Hi Chris,
Where have I been? I've been spending time with my baby girl instead of my oval. I can't give up the track days though. I bought a WRX as a daily driver. I took it to the track and realised it won't stop or turn. I fitted ADVAN Neovas and AP Racing brakes on the front so it now stops and it's 0.2 seconds quicker than the beetle around Wakefield but it's not fun to drive. It might get some swaybars but I didn't want to modify it. It's actually made me really appreciate the way the oval stops and turns.

It's hard to get into the VW at 4:45am and head to wakefield with the IDAs and race seat. But it's nice to hop in the Scooby with cruise, climate control, stereo and cup holders.

Hi Matt,
I think you've talked me into the 78mm. I don't mind a little clearancing if it's going to be less work than shortening the cylinders. Thanks for your advice.

Hi Sander,
I imagine the proposed combination will provide a big jump in HP and not just torque.

I've got to keep the Beetle faster than the WRX. It was faster than the stock WRX which has 190kW. That's the other reason for the change. I'm now used to horsepower and the beetle just makes noise not power.

Regards

CT

congrats on the liitle girl ct..

2165-76cc sweet

Have a good rumage through Larrys shed mate there,s a good K10 and a Pauter cam that might be to your liking.

Thay are both run in and only used on Sunday drives, LOL.

Larrys the man CT.

Cheers Col

Hi again CT
The K8 is a good old faithful conservative cam with a lot of reliability thrown in.
Don't worry about running out of puff early, just change gear, and keep charging on.
Mentioning.... 'trailer queen' means K8 longevity is required.
The added stroke will give you added torque, which makes for easier, less tiresome driving,,, both on the track or the odd day you drive the vehicle to work.
If not already with the 48IDA's, pair of 48 IDF's will make the vehicle more palatable to drive.
I only use 48IDF carburettors with reasonable results and no mods to the rear bonnet is required.
I did take in that you did not want to spend any more,,,and wanted to use what you have in the shed.
I know the the end result of accumulating and collecting stuff.
You end up with a shed full of stuff that you may use one day!
Anyhow it appears that you have enough good stuff to produce a motor that you will be happy with,without braking the bank.
Regards Rene'

Was talking to larry on Thursday CT.
He also mentioned a Web Cam 86c in his shed of thrills.
He agrees with me though, K8 a little conservative.

Cheers Col

Hi Rene,

I change carbys more than I change underwear. I've got a nice set of 44 IDFs which I can use instead of the IDAs. What true VW enthusiast doesn't have shed full of bits? I'm starting to think the K8 might be a good paper weight. It is too conservative.

Hi Colin,

I'll talk to Larry this week and see what he has in his shed.

I'm looking forward to some garage therapy. I might do it after the Sydney Drags and before the VW Nationals.

Regards
CT

Yep. Tame cams are for kombis

CT

if you're not using that cam again, is it worth re using the original case?? It's seen some big temperatures and rpm at times from memory?? Maybe leave it as a short block cause it's still fresh on the bearings from last cam change yeah?........same old story, is it worth risking failure to save the $800 for a new one. No reason why a new case cant have the same number stamped on it

Are those rods in the current engine?

What are your thoughts on RPM range to aim for with the new stroker........some memory of you being at previous max RPM early on the Eastern creek straight as it was.

.......when it's time to run in the new cam i have the tool to remove the inner springs with the motor in car for you too

Dont stop in the middle, throw in a FK87 ! Probably need to cut new set of pushrods to length too?



Sould make good HP with those heads for sure.......need some rpm tho

P.S Did I ever suggest a five speed would suit you and the ovals adventures perfectly

Hi CT

Cams are a little like oils and religion.
We all have our ideas and views on which is the right one but never the twain shal meet.
Cams are a bit of a personal choice and I'm sure you'lle make the right decision.
As for the crankcase, it's had it heat cycles and is stable, and as long as it measures up Ok, with no cracks, why not use it.

Regards Rene'

CT , I am not one to give any advice as I can't drive for shit , however I think that the Wedgeport heads are way too big for your new engine combination . Here are the spec's on an engine that I have built for my own car , dyno'd it and have done almost 1500 km's in the past 2 months . This engine is installed into my '76 bug that Alison drives every day , has a 3.88 diff with a .82 top gear and 17" wheels that are 1" larger in diameter than a stock wheel . The car can be driven @ 50 km/h in 4th gear and can accelerate to 160 km/h on a freeway onramp before even getting on the freeway . I presume it is reving to around 7000 and is really smooth to drive at low speed . The engine produced 137 HP and 206 ft/lb's @ the wheels and will be now marketed on my website as 'the ultimate street engine' . The engine does not get hot , does not need an external oil cooler , has minimal induction noise , is very quiet on the exhaust side and has a light clutch . I was always told by my father that the two things that most people do wrong is over cam and over carb an engine . I have built many engines and this is by far the most surprising engine to date ,
82 x 94mm - 2276cc
CNC round port heads with 42 x 37.5 valves and dual springs
FK 43 cam 383 lift and 250 dur. @ .050 , 280 running duration
1.4 pro rockers
9.05:1 compression
.050 deck height
48mm Dellorto's with matched off-set manifolds
1 5/8" sidewinder with custom tail pipe
Magnaspark ignition kit

On the same day I tuned another engine for a customer that was larger in capacity-2387 cc, larger cam-C95 , bigger CNC heads - oval port, more compression-9.53 and smaller carbs-44idf's . This engine made 4 HP and 2 ft/lb's of torque more than my own engine . Why , I have no idea . Both engines were tuned 1 hr apart and I think that my own 2276cc engine is a better combination due to airspeed and cylinder compression . I am now a lover of the smaller cams , smaller heads and the decrease in induction noise and the increase in drivablilty . You are welcome to drive this car so you can get an idea of how it drives and maybe this will help you decide on your new combo , ROD.

Yes I would agree the wedge port is too big.
Those ports coupled with 9000rpm are for a racing engine.

The CB Pro Gas class in the US uses these heads with just
good manifolds, a flycut for compression and
front runners with 2300cc+or- engines make about 230 at the wheels...at over 8000rpm.

Both the mini wedge and superpro have more cfm per port volume.
I also think a 42 valve is more than enough(shame they dont make those with a 40 valve!)

so what would be the go with the wedge ports? can they be used to there potential with a combo of cam and carbs or are we limiting ourselves to a "driveable" combo? just questions?

Hi CT
The wedge port heads are a little wasted on the motor but as you want to use what you have,
just cam the motor to suit your driving application and don't get to wrapped up in marketing jargon,
big lifts and long durations bla bla bla.
Leave that for the yanks, they just love it.
I have a 2232cc street Karmann Ghia ( yes I am aware it is a little larger in capacity than what has been
talked about but you will see
where this is going... ) with 44/38 wedge ports twin 44IDF Carbies and an old CB 4062 Super Torquer
cam (which have not been made for 15 years), close ratio four speed.
It runs out of puff at 5,500 rpm (that's when you change into another gear )where it makes 150 HP.
Where I am going with this is,,,,, the motor pulls like Texan whore from 1,400RPM, idles like a standard motor,
drives smooth as a stock Volkswagen, BUT, it would take something special to out a accelerate off the lights or up a hill.
It does all this without much fuss.
How cool is that,,,, squeeze the throttle at any RPM and bugger me it goes hard.
Shit!..... beats waiting for that ferking cam to come in and,,,,,,,, bugger me,,, I'm still waiting ,,,,,and WOW 165 HP @ 6000 RPM
all happening right at the end of Punt road.
Noisy, Busy, most of all,,,, ferking tiresome!!
You're probably already buggered from the little one keeping you up, work pressures and to top it off,a non responsive noisy car.
I don't think so,,that's got whiskers on it!
Where was I going with this,,,,wedge port with big valves that you already have will do the job with a smaller cam.
As Rodney suggested, don't ever over cam a motor, especially if you want to stick the little one (congratulations) in the back for a
Sunday drive with your wife.
Happy choice making.
Regards from Rene' in the nanny state

Hi All,

This post is turning into a good read. Thanks Rod, Rene and Dave and others for contributing.

I've always thought my car was easy to drive. The W130 was a bit rich around 2700 rpm but you could drive around it easily. The IDAs are way too big for the current motor but I don't find them all that different to the 44 IDFs since the vents are only 1 mm bigger. They actually idle better. So if I push it too far for the street I'll learn a lesson.

I think Rod's engine and even Rene's sound a bit too street-oriented than what I'm after. To date my engine has never cracked 100 HP at the wheels due to the pissy min-D port DRD / aircooled.net level 5 heads which were disappointingly conservative.

There's plenty of room for some more mongrel in the engine bay. I'm after 150+ horsepower at the treads. I want the thing to make good horsepower at 7500 rpm so I can hold it in third up and down the hill at Wakefield park and then drop it into second at the fishook and coming on to the straight and leave a pair of black lines. The gearbox has Albins gears and a ZF LSD. 1:12s at Wakefield and low 13 second quarters would be nice.

Here's how the current plan looks:
2165cc
78mm crank
Stock length H beam rods
Engle K10
10.5:1 CR
New 94mm mahle pistons and cylinders
44 x 37 wedgeports (Not ultra wedgeports) 50cc
44IDFs with big beefy manifolds. The IDAs might go on later when I sort out the manifolds.
1 5/8 exhaust
Maybe a breather tapped into the top of the case instead of the rocker covers???

The wedgies are massive compared to the mini D ports. I'm surprised Dave says they won't work. I must admit looking at CB's product range they actually look middle of the road. I suppose the competition eliminators, superflos etc would be overkill. But then again the yanks seem to think bigger is always better and they let the sales pitch take over.

Who is using wedgeports successfully on a similar sized engine?

I'll keep Halle out of the beetle as I wouldn't want the webers to damage her hearing.

Opinions on the proposed combination are welcome.

Cheers everyone

Hey ct speak to dave butler about heads and port sizes we did a fair bit of research on the heads for my 2276 and we found that the mini wedge ports were the best as the airspeed is quite high i think the 44mm valve would be a bit of over kill and you would lose a lot of bottom end i would even go for a good set of heads with a 40mm vavle my old berg heads almost out flowed the wedge ports just a thought..

D.B.... How did the v26 go in the red bug with the ally cylinders with the similar cc C.T is aiming for ?

Yes Craig Torrens has the Wedgies and big cam yet still well drivable after a run with him during a visit to his lair last nationals

As per Stevies post above....jeffs hellbug had a set of purpose built berg heads built with hillclimb needs in mind, and as such measures to keep airspeed going... Although large, they are not like the wide open drag orientated head ports you would have seen at the time, nor those currently available.

Hi CT
Wouldn't lend ,give, buy,steal or touch the K10 and certainly not a used one.
It has fast ramp rates,bad harmonics and is aggressive on the valve train, not forgetting your origional objective.
Power and reiability.
Bit of an old tested,tried formula,' but we all love old school stuff'.
I would use a silky smooth FK87, as it is easy on the valve train which will result in reliability and longevity.
The FK87 will allow you to maintain power in the mid to higher rev range with less detriment to the seats , valves, springs, cam followers, cam tunnels and rockers being pounded to death in an unacceptable time.
Leave that second hand K10 lump stick for someone else's paper weight in their garage!
We all mean well.
Regards from Rene' living in the over regulated state.

Beat me to it Rene,was going to say fk87 too especialy if you want to make power to 7500,and yes I have read fk10 is aggressive and fk 89 is smoother again.keep the wedgies and put those bitching Ida's on happy times! Low 13's and wow did anyone see that beetle do 1:12's @ Wakefield!!!!!!!

Ha ha.... Stoked not to be making the decisions you're up for Mr C.T

D.B more to add re you're flow bench findings around different valve sizes with steve....? My heads still spinning from our chin wags about this time last year on the subject

My old 2332 running a tweaked Scat nonwelded 043 and FK87 9.7 CR and IDA's made 141 rwhp. We later swaped out the cam to GB310, slightly down on hp but made for a smoother bottom end. For the bigger wedge ports, I'd up the cam probably, really depends on how high a CR your going to go for. Higher comp and some ceramic coatings so you still maintain cooler temps.

Decisions, decisions,,,,,,,,,, decisions

Just wish I was as popular as the FK87 and CT !

Regards Rene'

air speed, cylinder filling, swirl and squish! surely any cylinder head within reason can be made to work with the right cam and induction. do we just stick to tradition or are some of the new players like JPM worth following?

I am interested in the wedge ports being to big?

My 1999cc runs wedge ports, and a milder cam and makes resonable power (130 rw hp)? I know its the sum of the parts, not what each part is....

I run the wedge ports on my 2332 cc in my green car. It has 48 idfs with 40 vents, k8 running 1.4:1 rockers, 1 3/4 exhaust, I find it to be very drivable ( my wife drives it no problem even with very tall 1 st gear a a 4 puck clutch) but still makes 172 hp at the wheels at just over 6000 rpm. But it does have quite high compression @ 12.1 :1 as I run it on e85. I love the heads as I just run them as bought out the box. I'm building another engine(2175) with a set on for my wife's oval also with k8 , 1.4s, 48 Ida's but lower compression.
Cheers Adam