My 63 rough bug has had a hole in the muffler for some time.

The muffler was a non-genuine 'muffler shop' type thing that was fitted after the 4 into one section.

From the merge point there was a long tube up alongside the drivers rear wheel and back again into the muffler.

Do I need this length?

Can I run a 'hotdog' type muffler after the merge point and how much length beyond the merge point is required?

I still run heater boxes and the rest of the 4 into one system is in serviceable condition.

The flange at the merge point is only 2 bolt - this seems to limit my 'off the shelf' options as most are 3 bolt!!!

Pics to follow......

Muffler



Pipe from merge point to muffler!

someones just made up a homegrown tuckaway system

cut off the pipe just after the flange and elbow and stick a hotdog on

all you need is 1 or 2 bends and a muffler you like
depends how much noise you want cos hot dogs are loud
mine sounds like a cross between a stinger and a WRX

heres one i made up awhile ago

ok if your planning on doing this realize that most hotdogs arent street legal. i know of only one that is and its baffled. its made by rapid exhaust( http://www.rapidexhaust.com.au ).
ive only had one car that had a hotdog it lasted 1 8hr round trip from taree to sydney. it was replaced by a inch and three quarter muffler quick smart.
hell my bug with a single muffler is only just under the legal limit by about 4 or 5 db.

QUESTION 1- Joel, how did you weld that hotdog and what dimeter pipe did you use for the 2 into 1.

QUESTION 2- What size engine did you run with this setup and how id it effect the performance.

just with the mig and it was all 2" cept the runners which were from an old system and were 1 3/8"

i ran it on the 1600 and 1776 with the blower on

and low down performance was pretty bad but that was the headers fault not the muffler
i didnt notice it tho till i put my thunderbird system back on and the flat spot dissapeared

i designed it all wrong
4-2-1 systems need to be opposing firing ie 1+3 and 2+4 not 1+2 and 3+4 like i had

ive since cut the hotdog off and welded a flange on to bolt it to my thunderbird header
flows much better now

Isnt the limit different for rear engined cars??? Are cops smart enough to know the the Db limit is (my guess is no...) and is it the same in every state....
Kombimatt, just go to an exhause shop and get them to make you up a new one... or... buy a whole new system. DONT BUY EMPI!

Joel, do you rate thunderbird headers highly? (I've got one sitting waiting to go onto my car...) What about the thunderbird hotdogs... A few poepl I have talked to have them and love them, a few people on this forum seem to hate them..... Im going to run it and see, but what is your opinion..?/

alotta ppl dont but i love them
i originally got it with a quiet pack and whilst it has a nice note its very quiet and doesnt even have that vw tone about it

the intake roar and straight cuts are easily louder than it

total opposite with the hotdog tho
as Barls said they are loud
my bug sounds like it has a stinger on it but it sounds mean

Pardon my ignorance, but what is the difference between a quiet pack and a hot dog....???
Im getting kadrons ( a friend runs the same setup, just on a 1776 and it sounds mega sweet) so... intake is not going to be louder than the exhaust sadly. I love loud N/A intakes. I saw an old mini at the all British day here in brisbane... loudest n/a intake Iv ever heard...

This is what i have.....

hotdogs are just straight thro pipes with a bit of fibreglass insulation around them so they dont quieten things down much

the quiet pack is a chambered muffler
it comes in to the box thro one pipe then travels thro heaps of tiny holes then out another pipe which is why they are alot quieter
this is also why they have that oval shape about them

not a good pic but kinda shows what i mean

Hi

I'm a fan of the Thunderbird system as well, I used to run them on all my motors, I didn't know you could still get them.

The hot dog muffler is loud, they get louder with age as well as the packing blows out.

The hot dogs have a more usable flange before the hot dog than the quiet packs, the quiet pack pokes out under the rear apron.

So if you get tired of the hot dog noise you can always make up up a bit of a system looping around under the car, just keep the hot dog flange to reuse.

Steve

IF i get tired of the hot dog noise, im goingto take my old fatboy down to the local exhasue shop and have them put a different flange on it, just so it doent protrude.... Cant see myself getting sick of it, it will be better than what is on their now. Cant wait to get my rear apron fixed up so i can get it on. its all set up in the spare room where i live...under the bed waiting to go!

I plan to put a cannon like this one.



Probably a smaller diameter.

Im preety sure ill make my own header in a few weeks do you have any tips on how to do this.

You know that you will probably lose power if you use a cannon like that, due to its size..... unless you are running a huge capacity engine.... You will also have issues trying to fit it in...

itll be about 41/2 inch diameter and im going to put it on a header like the one joel made.

if ur gonna try it grab one of the cheap 2nd hand ones off ebay that ppl fit then remove straight away cos there 2 loud

been there done that

plus they sound like ass on a vw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-HMh38YmVw 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JM682XNlmtU 

Yeah.... leave the cannons to the subi's

Yeah im on tight budget restraints so ebay is like the only choice.

Y ou said yours was too loud, was it just loud or did it sound nice as well.

i had 2 cannons, one each side

basically home made version of this but down low to fit a bug with some hacked up J pipes



loud was the problem, sound was fine, unequal lenght headers gave it that choppy WRX note

it got really droany at about 3k which was right at hiway speed, one trip to the goldcoast was enough for me to rip them off when i got home
the kinda rumble that really hurts your head
i can only imagine that a single one would be louder again

there still in mum and dads shed somewhere i think
altho my bug was pretty low at the time so the bottoms are dragged off them and theres lots of ugly hangers welded to them..... i hate welding stainless

I dont like empi crap.... but
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/VW-VOLKSWAGEN-BEETLE-EMPI-EXHAUST_W0QQitemZ36014165545...


Bolts straight onto your heater boxes. If your heater boxes are screwed, I can sell you some of those. Just igve it all a sand down and paint up.....


http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Stainless-Steel-Performance-Muffler_W0QQitemZ320353473...

thats like the only one I found on ebay, thats cheaper than what i suggested and is in AUS...... Is this about what you want or what you can afford???



Joel - that system would be such a tight fit into a beetle....

I would only be making my own header because most of the cheaper ones come right to the end of the rear apron. I dont like that look, the only one ive seen that doesnt is the sidewinder, and they are preety expansive.

is there a cheaper version, save me trying to make my own.

that first one is just a monza with only one outlet instead of 2 without the totally awesome 4 chrome tips

i would run a stock peashotter over 1 of those

cannons leave u with sweet FA ground clearance, hence why mine had the arses dragged outta them

Did the one you made yourself the one where you made the header drag alot too?

and wat is cheap for a cannon, there is a supercheapauto here and they sell for $100 each, i presume thats not expensive but nt as cheap as they come.

there was no header, just cut up J pipes from each cylinder feeding into the back of each cannon

it was back 4 years ago b4 i had a digitial camera

u can get them abit cheaper than that
ive seen them for $69 at autobahn
the staino will last forever but i bet the insulation wont

You could always make one of Joel's "Milo Tin" exhausts
(Insert picture here)

What was the ground clearance of this set up?

what did you use to join to the engine blcok?

ground clearance was better than my quietpack
it just bolts up to the heads and heaterboxes as per all other exhausts

u can see it fitted to the spare engine in my black bug on another post

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=75303&page=2