How to tell 1500 or 1600
vicelore - June 22nd, 2010 at 06:46 PM
hey guys.
Well iv been looking at a 1967 notch.. and the owner isnt sure if its a 1600 or a 1500.. I know this sounds easy but wanted to make sure somehow.
Its a twin carbie with a 1600 badge on the boot.. but he seemed to think it was a 1500..
So either the boots been replaced or re badged..
Is there a way to check ???
Cheers Vice
empi - June 22nd, 2010 at 07:17 PM
1600 has twin port heads (manifold different will look/feel like an 8) also engine case letter at the beginning of the number. 1500 twin carb is
single port manifold (Basically a pipe - circular - o )
zocstar - June 22nd, 2010 at 10:14 PM
check on the rego papers.
modulus - June 22nd, 2010 at 11:06 PM
Take the engine out. Remove the heads. If it's 83 mm bore, 1500: if it's 85 mm, 1600. There are plenty of 1600 single ports out there.
hth
vicelore - June 23rd, 2010 at 12:19 AM
So there is no way to tell by body or plate markings ?? the bodys in 1500s and 1600 are exactly the same ?? Just curious as im not sure if the engine
has been changed.. and would like to know the history of the car if it has.
There was 1600s built in 67 ??
Cheers Vice
waveman1500 - June 23rd, 2010 at 12:33 AM
Unless the car has done extremely low miles, it's very likely that the engine has been either rebuilt or swapped during the car's life. A lot of
1500cc VW engines get the pistons and cylinders swapped to 1600cc during a rebuild, as they are a direct replacement. Similarly, people swap all sorts
of engines in from everywhere. If you write down the engine number, there are lists to decode what type of engine that crankcase was originally built
as, but this is no indication that it's all original. Condition is far more important than originality or an extra 100cc of capacity, so just make
sure that the car has no rust, check for all kinds of problems with the engine, transaxle, suspension/driveline and electricals.
dogo - June 23rd, 2010 at 01:54 AM
What is the engine number? That will tell you what and when it was menufractured.
vicelore - June 23rd, 2010 at 12:14 PM
The Enging number on the rego is T0240790
I take it that number should be on the engine somewhere too ?? Can someone tell me where about its listed if it is..
Cheers Vice
dogo - June 23rd, 2010 at 12:18 PM
on the top of the crankcase where the two halves join
vicelore - June 23rd, 2010 at 12:19 PM
Oh ok..
Can you tell what it was from this number dogo ?
Cheers Vice
dogo - June 23rd, 2010 at 12:24 PM
1600 type 3
vicelore - June 23rd, 2010 at 12:50 PM
Is there a website that does this Dogo ?? Would love a link if you can..
Gladd as to hear its a 1600 engine as this matches the badge on the back.. 1967 is pretty early for a 1600 too i would of thaught.. NICE!!
Cheers Vice.
1500S - June 23rd, 2010 at 01:56 PM
| Quote: |
Originally
posted by vicelore
Is there a website that does this Dogo ?? Would love a link if you can..
Gladd as to hear its a 1600 engine as this matches the badge on the back.. 1967 is pretty early for a 1600 too i would of thaught.. NICE!!
Cheers Vice.
|
1966 model year was the introduction of the 1600.
DH
Burrelli - June 23rd, 2010 at 02:43 PM
I thought only the fastback was 1600 in Australia in 66. Sqareback and Notch stayed 1500 till 67 or am I dreaming?
vicelore - June 23rd, 2010 at 03:38 PM
Dogo i take it you took the t0 from the engine number and identified it as a 1600 from the listing on the samba.. Iv looked that up and all looks
correct.
The start of the VIN number dosent seem to match anything listed on the samba tho.. Everything on their starting with 317 are LHD cars.. Which this
one defently isnt ...
Cheers Vice
1500S - June 23rd, 2010 at 06:23 PM
| Quote: |
Originally
posted by Burrelli
I thought only the fastback was 1600 in Australia in 66. Sqareback and Notch stayed 1500 till 67 or am I dreaming?
|
Could have been only the Fasty to 1967. The Notch was still being advertised as the 1500 Deluxe in 1967 whereas the Square was advertised as having
the 1600 twin carb engine. The Fasty took the place of the 1500S with all (well most) of the exterior trim. A mate who was spare parts manager at
Lennox Motors, Blacktown had a new 1600 Notch in 68 but other than the engine was still rather "plain Jane". Not sure if you could order the
earlier Notch with the 1600 engine if required. Many of the earlier 1500 engines were converted to 1600 by local hoons not long after they were
introduced. . 
Would be good if we could get "The History of TYPE 3 Vehicles in Australia" rather than "A History in General". There must be someone in the
group who has info on actual production by year of actual engine size fitted to Squares and Notches. We know that the 1600 was in the Fastys from
1966 as fact but which year did the whole range go over. Was it when the dual port heads were introduced for fuel injection fitment.
DH
Burrelli - June 23rd, 2010 at 08:11 PM
Hmmm I think I was dreaming. I read this arvo 1600s came out Jan 66 (the start of the model year in Australia) in Squares and Notchs and also 1500n.
It said Fastys came out in April. 67 was the last year before CKD ( full knock down kits) came from Germany some time in 68. So Aussie 67s were using
up parts they had and came with some wired stuff like some with bullet indicators.
T0240790 looks real close to a 67 engine to me
vicelore - June 23rd, 2010 at 08:47 PM
Well the car says on the rego its a 67 so im taking it its a 1967 with a 1600 in it by what iv read here from you guys ??
It does have the bullet type indicators.. This isnt normal for a 67 ??
Cant wait to get it home.. prob be friday and ill post up some pics for you guys...
Cheers Vice
1500S - June 23rd, 2010 at 09:12 PM
| Quote: |
Originally
posted by Burrelli
Hmmm I think I was dreaming. I read this arvo 1600s came out Jan 66 (the start of the model year in Australia) in Squares and Notchs and also 1500n.
It said Fastys came out in April. 67 was the last year before CKD ( full knock down kits) came from Germany some time in 68. So Aussie 67s were using
up parts they had and came with some wired stuff like some with bullet indicators.
T0240790 looks real close to a 67 engine to me
|
The Fasty was released in the normal August 1965 changeover in Germany. Not sure when it actually hit our shores but August was generally the
changeover here. Those imported Fastys had the full locking steering column. Saw a few of them around Sydney those days. The last one I saw with
that column was in the wreckers at Grafton.
The OZ built Fastys had the el cheapo ignition switch from our N. The Fasty was the only ones to have the wrap around front indicators here until
1969 (not including the imported S). Notch and Squares always had the bullet indicators until 1969 model (August 68??). I don't think the 68 model
had them here. If any of the earlier Notch/Squares had them they would have been added, as were the rear long reflectors by the owners in later
years.
We must have been the dumping ground for all obsolete VW crapp as we had drum brakes as well up to 68. Also, the floorpans had the older heater
controls on the Notch and Square until rather late instead of the pull up type.
DH
vicelore - June 23rd, 2010 at 09:29 PM
DH..
Your saying that all notch`s and squares up to 1969 had the bullet indicators ?? Thats what i thaught and it sounds like your saying. Kinda dont get
what you mean when you say
"If any of the earlier Notch/Squares had them they would have been added, as were the rear long reflectors by the owners in later years."
I take it you mean if the any later ones ( after 68 ) have bullet indicators they where added ?
Cheers Vice
1500S - June 23rd, 2010 at 10:37 PM
| Quote: |
Originally
posted by vicelore
DH..
Your saying that all notch`s and squares up to 1969 had the bullet indicators ?? Thats what i thaught and it sounds like your saying. Kinda dont get
what you mean when you say
"If any of the earlier Notch/Squares had them they would have been added, as were the rear long reflectors by the owners in later years."
I take it you mean if the any later ones ( after 68 ) have bullet indicators they where added ?
Cheers Vice
|
Yes,they have been added. Some Dubbers seem to like the bullet indicators and have even fitted them to Fastys. After a car leaves the showroom, all
sorts of mods happen over the years and some even think that's how it left the showroom 4 owners and 30 years later.
For example, in 1967, I purchased a 1964 Oz built 1500N. Handbooks gave instructions on how the steering wheel locked, the headlights flashed and so
on. The book with the car was obviously for the German all frills car, not the no frills OZ version. I had seen the 63 models and stupidly added
the side marker lights in that position above the waistline, not in line with the moulding trim. There were heaps of those 63 models in the wreckers
with the steering columns, pushbutton light switches, popouts etc. I'd read about the 1500S in the 64 Ampol trial here in OZ and had seen pics of
them in English mags but in the flesh.... no, not until 1968 did I find one in the wreckers here to get the wrap-arounds and overriders plus all the
interior. How I hated that ignition switch hanging down from the steering column to bash your knees on!! Couldn't get rid of it quick enough!!
Fastys were still too new and not many had been written off at that time. That car was he donor for my "look-a-like" 1500S complete with popouts,
the engine by this time was a 1600 as well. The compliance plate said it was a 1964 OZ built N but whoever got it after me in 1971, could be
confused into thinking it came from the factory like this.
Vice ol' boy, I hope that sheds some light on some of the cosmetic bits on the OZ vehicles. Also worth mentioning that even the 1969 American Square
seems to only have bullet indicators so we have to be careful comparing what we had in OZ to America.
DH
vicelore - June 23rd, 2010 at 10:52 PM
Defently fills in heaps of info mate..
I wish i could make a time line with all models and changes that have happened to the type 3 in aus compared to the other countrys but yea big
job..haha.
Im pretty happy with what iv herd now and think that this one seems to fall in the right time line for its features.. I think the owner was just
confused about it being a 1500 when it was a 1600 all along. ( he told me he didnt care just loved the car and didnt look into it)..
Its in prestine condition and cant wait to post up some pics for you guys..
Cheers Vice
1500S - June 23rd, 2010 at 11:17 PM
| Quote: |
Originally
posted by vicelore
Defently fills in heaps of info mate..
I wish i could make a time line with all models and changes that have happened to the type 3 in aus compared to the other countrys but yea big
job..haha.
Im pretty happy with what iv herd now and think that this one seems to fall in the right time line for its features.. I think the owner was just
confused about it being a 1500 when it was a 1600 all along. ( he told me he didnt care just loved the car and didnt look into it)..
Its in prestine condition and cant wait to post up some pics for you guys..
Cheers Vice
|
Just have to add that after reading Phil Matthews history again, he states that the 68 model year receives the 1600 engine across all models so yours
may be an August 67 or later produced car with 1600 engine and script to match. A long time ago! Post those pics when you get it home.
DH