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fitting electric fuel pump
Purple Martin - October 30th, 2009 at 01:23 PM

I'm considering fitting an electric fuel pump to my '59 beetle with a 1600 engine. I've heard that the best location is under the fuel tank, and I have a couple of other questions about how to do this properly...

What is the right knd of pressure range needed?
Where should the pump get electric power from?
Do I need some kind of safety cut-off, if so how should that be set up?

Thanks in advance


Adsman - October 30th, 2009 at 01:49 PM

You will need to buy a pump to suit a carby motor they run a lower pressure around 4.
Yes fitting them under the fuel tank is a good idea to prevent the pump sucking air.
You won't necessarily need any safety cut off for fuel pressure but depending on your carby an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator might be helpful. (try without first most times not needed, as pumps have an internal pressure regulator)
To power your pump its a good idea to run a new feed from the battery via a relay to the pump switch the relay off your ignition (saves filling the motor with fuel if you forget to turn off the pump after stopping the engine..lol)
Its also a good idea to rubber mount your pump as it saves some of the vibration noise in the cab (just remember to add an earth strap to the pump housing if rubber mounting)


HotRodMatt - October 30th, 2009 at 03:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Adsman
You won't necessarily need any safety cut off for fuel pressure


But you are required to have a tachometric relay or similar to switch off the pump if the engine stops.


grumble - October 30th, 2009 at 08:19 PM

i agree with HotRodMatt you definitely need a cut out in case of accident,there would be nothing worse than being in a vehicle after a crash with the engine stopped and the fuel pump spraying fuel over a hot motor through a ruptured fuel line whilst you were trapped or incapaitated.I use a relay triggered by the oil pressure switch which cuts the fuel when there is no fuel pressure. As there is usually fuel in the carby there is no problem starting. Cheers Les


Joel - October 31st, 2009 at 08:51 PM

what makes you want to go electric?

stock works well even feed a pair of IDAs

i ran one while ago but only cos i had no choice
first round it was wired by the charge light so it only ran when the alternator spun and second round i got a EFI fuel pump relay which works of tacho signal

they're usually noisy and pressure can be a problem with some carbs
kadrons are painfull with electric pumps


68AutoBug - October 31st, 2009 at 09:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Purple Martin
I'm considering fitting an electric fuel pump to my '59 beetle with a 1600 engine. I've heard that the best location is under the fuel tank, and I have a couple of other questions about how to do this properly...

What is the right knd of pressure range needed?
Where should the pump get electric power from?
Do I need some kind of safety cut-off, if so how should that be set up?

Thanks in advance


Hi
Yes,
I have mine mounted under the tank...
I have it wired to the ignition thru a switch which is under the dash... so i can switch it off any time...

You only need about 2 PSI of fuel pressure so You don't need any large capacity pumps..
Mine is very quiet.. I only hear it when i turn the key on..

I ended up getting a fuel pressure regulator and gauge...

LEE


68AutoBug - October 31st, 2009 at 11:42 PM

http://inlinethumb04.webshots.com/32771/1146550404050767931S600x600Q85.jpg 

Hi,
from My website..
a photo of under My fuel tank

I hope it turns Out OK..

a bit hard to see..

the round black plastic fuel pumps is under the steering column
My electric air horns are on the RHS,,

You will also notice the collapsible steering column...
every beetle should be fitted with one of these....

I think they started in 1968>
I also have fitted a collapsible steering wheel...
from a late type 3 VW...

cheers

LEE

http://community.webshots.com/user/vw68autobug 

LEE


baybug - November 3rd, 2009 at 06:24 PM

i have just purchased an electric fuel pump ( facet type with a pressure of 1.5 - 4 psi) for my 1600 L bug , stock motor with new solex 34pic carby. i was going to mount the pump in the engine bay on the passenger side panel. i have an oil pressure switch to run it through
1. will that get to hot for it there ?
2. from previous threads i am gatheriong i don't need a regulator, is that right?

Cheers


1303Steve - November 3rd, 2009 at 06:46 PM

Hi

If you look at the instruction sheet that came with the pump, there are special things you need to do, it needs to be lower than the tank and close to the tank, inside the engine bay is the worst place to fit it.

Steve


baybug - November 3rd, 2009 at 07:20 PM

thanks - i will go looking for a spot under the tank


HotRodMatt - November 3rd, 2009 at 07:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 68AutoBug
I have it wired to the ignition thru a switch which is under the dash... so i can switch it off any time...


Except if you crash and burn to death...

Having an automated power shut off is one requirement that makes sense!


68AutoBug - November 3rd, 2009 at 08:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by baybug
i have just purchased an electric fuel pump ( facet type with a pressure of 1.5 - 4 psi) for my 1600 L bug , stock motor with new solex 34pic carby. i was going to mount the pump in the engine bay on the passenger side panel. i have an oil pressure switch to run it through
1. will that get to hot for it there ?
2. from previous threads i am gathering i don't need a regulator, is that right?

Cheers


Hi
I got away without a fuel regulator for about 6 months...
then My engine started to flood....
I left My key on one day and fuel was coming out My muffler...

You don't need more than 2 PSI...
and under the fuel tank is best...
some pumps need to be in a certain position too...

make sure you have a fuse in line plus a fuel filter....

cheers

LEE




I have got a pic somewhere??


Joel - November 3rd, 2009 at 08:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by baybug
i was going to mount the pump in the engine bay on the passenger side panel. i have an oil pressure switch to run it through


definately under the tank
my rotary converted bug had one there and the pumps can run dry on a low tank if u face down hill

electric pumps need a good gravity feed
only place to get that is under the tank


baybug - November 3rd, 2009 at 08:44 PM

thanks again
yes i have got a oil pressure switch to cut off power if oil pressure drops.
i kinda figured that the engine bay may gat a bit hot as well for the pump
i will take advice and get a regulator about 2psi, if i can find one

cheers


baybug - November 4th, 2009 at 09:00 AM

just a few more silly questions
does the fuel pump need to be bfore the filter and does the regulator need to be close to the pump ?
cheers


Joel - November 4th, 2009 at 02:27 PM

doesnt matter where the reg is just as long as its before the carbs :lol:

definately put the filter before the pump
electric pump have a habit of stopping at inconvenient times when rust flakes from the tank try to go through them


68AutoBug - November 4th, 2009 at 04:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by baybug
thanks again
yes i have got a oil pressure switch to cut off power if oil pressure drops.
i kinda figured that the engine bay may gat a bit hot as well for the pump
i will take advice and get a regulator about 2psi, if i can find one

cheers



Hi

Regulators - Holley is the most common type...
but there are a few different ones about...
and they ARE adjustable....
just screw or dial in the lowest setting..


I have My regulator in the engine bay...

but the pump and filter is under the fuel tank..

I ended up buying a fuel pressure gauge to see what the pressure was.. .lol

I really only wanted to check the pressure... Oh welll..

LEE


68AutoBug - November 4th, 2009 at 04:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by baybug
thanks again
yes i have got a oil pressure switch to cut off power if oil pressure drops.
i kinda figured that the engine bay may gat a bit hot as well for the pump
i will take advice and get a regulator about 2psi, if i can find one

cheers


I just found a circuit diagram for a fuel pump in one of My folders... lol...

which includes a relay and cut off.. lol

LEE


baybug - November 4th, 2009 at 05:12 PM

thanks
i would love a copy of the circut diagram just to make sure i am doing it right.

i have a pressure regulator from local speed shoop dial up the pressure frpm 0.5 to 5 psi and i think it will end up in the engine bay.

it is tight under the tank to find a spot for the pump. will they work mounted on their side to the viertical wall or do they have to be flat
cheers


11CAB - November 4th, 2009 at 06:53 PM

Here's a link that uses a normal switching relay off the charge light circuit.

http://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp~TID~107789~PN~5 


baybug - November 5th, 2009 at 07:18 PM

got the fuel pump all done and fitted under the tank near the filter, i ended up getting an aftermarket regulator that was adjustable 0 - 5 psi !!!!!!! turns out it was adjustable 0 -0, it completely blocked all fuel flow. so i threw it back to the shop. trying it without one for a while and see.

huge improvement in the bug, though that may also be due to the new carby and manifolds as well

thanks all for your advice, it is reallly great being part of the vw family

cheers


Purple Martin - November 16th, 2009 at 01:56 PM

I've had an idea...

As has been said, the relay can run from the charge light circuit so the pump will cut out if the engine stops.
I read somewhere that someone also put a relay by-pass push-button switch on the dash so they can fill the carb before starting the car. My idea is: instead of using a relay by-pass switch, use a second relay that runs from the starter motor circuit to fill the carb while cranking.

Am I mad?


11CAB - November 16th, 2009 at 05:28 PM

The link I posted above does that as well, but all with the one relay. You can buy them at Repco for about $13


Joel - November 16th, 2009 at 06:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Purple Martin
I've had an idea...

As has been said, the relay can run from the charge light circuit so the pump will cut out if the engine stops.
I read somewhere that someone also put a relay by-pass push-button switch on the dash so they can fill the carb before starting the car. My idea is: instead of using a relay by-pass switch, use a second relay that runs from the starter motor circuit to fill the carb while cranking.

Am I mad?


its been done
works well
heres a diagram


matberry - November 16th, 2009 at 08:22 PM

Good info above. Thanks Joel.


snowman9 - July 18th, 2010 at 09:46 AM

My thanks Joel as well. :tu:


General_Failure - July 26th, 2010 at 12:09 PM

I'm using a tacho relay from a VK Dunnydoor. Works a treat even though my relay's primer function seems to be buggered.

Recently i ended up with a tacho relay used in LPG systems. Looks like it would do the job pretty much as well, so even though it isn't pin compatible I have a spare if I need it.


VolksVair - June 1st, 2011 at 06:36 PM

Any electric fuel pump installation i do, I run the power through an oil pressure switch, "No oil pressure, No fuel pressure" A 12V shut off valve is a good bonus too


Joel - June 1st, 2011 at 06:58 PM

That's all well and good on a fresh engine but one that's got a few miles under it's belt can take a few seconds to get oil pressure and when hot the oil light can flicker at idle which can upset the relay or worse yet cut the fuel pump out.
not fun when you're sitting at traffic lights.

It's so easy to get a tachometric fuel pump relay, nearly all fuel injected cars use them.
I had one from a Commodore and it was great, it primed the pump for 2 secs when you turned the ignition on then waited for a tacho signal before it ran again and stopped soon as the tach signal stopped.


bajachris88 - June 1st, 2011 at 07:29 PM

i rekon having that tachometer based switch or charge light off the alternator is the way to go,

but have an override momentary push button that you hold while cranking to 'prime' then of course the alternator or tacho goes and u let go of the override then technically it should run itself :P