| [ Total Views: 980 | Total Replies: 21 | Thread Id: 103807 ] |
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 Camo
A.k.a.: Kev
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| posted on October 17th, 2013 at 05:48 PM |
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A/C Engine sprayed with water vapor to cool it
Just found this on another site and wondered if anyone hear had ever attempted it. Basically they did this back in 1973 on an air cooled porsche.
They spray water at the air cooling fan and the water vapors greatly cool the cylinders down via contact and also cools the air down.
Anyway, have a read and see what you think > http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/150982-water-vapor-cooled-911-rubbermaid-solution.html
Obviously this is probably more related to turbo engines or very high compression motors. Maybe have it set up to start spraying at a set
temperature.
Kev
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ian.mezz
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| posted on October 17th, 2013 at 06:14 PM |
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turbo motors you spray the water inside the motor , into the inlet manifold  keeps the carbon off the valves etc toooo
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Camo
A.k.a.: Kev
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| posted on October 17th, 2013 at 06:23 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by ian.mezz
turbo motors you spray the water inside the motor , into the inlet manifold keeps the carbon off the valves etc toooo
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Hi Ian,
yeah I know all the benefits of water injection into manifolds when turbo and I think it is a good thing especially if you don't have an
inter-cooler, but there are some out there whom are against it.
But as mentioned in my first post, this can be for high performance non turbo engines and used as a backup safety device if engine gets stinking hot.
Although I'm not sure how much it would cool the heads down, more so the cylinders which I guess are connected to the heads (obviously  ).
Kev 
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silver
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| posted on October 17th, 2013 at 06:28 PM |
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evaporative coolers work that way i guess it has to work
Keeping it real !
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ian.mezz
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| posted on October 17th, 2013 at 06:36 PM |
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in the 80s we just plug the windscreen washer bottle in and let the motor suck it in
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vlad01
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| posted on October 18th, 2013 at 08:37 AM |
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yes this would work well from what I gather.
I tried this before on high performance PCs, on external radiators into the fan and the temp drops a lot.
Also a proven technique on front mount ATA intercoolers on cars. Couple of water jet nozzles at the front sprays onto the intercooler. The air/mist
mix is drawn through the intercooler.
Moist air has much larger heat capacity over dry air. Fine droplets hitting the surface and evaporating has an even greater effect on top of that as
well.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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Gracey
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| posted on October 18th, 2013 at 01:00 PM |
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A guy on here has done this, Modrod from memory.
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on October 18th, 2013 at 01:25 PM |
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I have done a spray setup onto the oil cooler............I have also done the same with my Evo X's SST (transmission) cooler, with great results 
I'm also experimenting with water vapor cooling ventilated discs 
I've never tried into the vw fan though, but it should work well.
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silver
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| posted on October 19th, 2013 at 07:11 AM |
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So basically, a water cooled VW
Keeping it real !
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nils
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| posted on October 19th, 2013 at 07:36 AM |
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I bought a kombi about 10 or so years ago, it had a irrigationfitting drilled in on each side, near the base of the fan shroud. it had head temp gauge
and would knock close to 50'C off when turned on.
definatly works. just a pain to top up water all the time
Quit calling rust patina
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68AutoBug
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| posted on October 19th, 2013 at 11:55 AM |
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Hi Kev
apart from spraying water onto Your cylinders and heads
which will turn into steam anyway when the engine is at a normal running temperature..
I think its a great idea..
have the water spray to a very fine mist so not using a lot of water.. Great on a 40C++ day...
another one above the driver would also be good... lol..
I read all the posts etc You mentioned Kev.. but as usual, some were talking about spraying internally [water injection] and others about external
spraying... on intercoolers etc
One fellow said His engine had two water jets in the fan housing that sprayed onto the fan...
You can get adjustable garden plastic sprays and sprays for different spraying patterns [or degrees]... so, lots of things to try...
[I;ve already tried all the different sprays in My Wife's garden ]
I first heard about water sprays onto intercoolers. about 14 years ago, when watching Cars in the Australian Rally championship starting..... while
waiting to Go, a Mitsubishi Lancer had water dripping from under the front of the car, I told the driver, who told Me that he had a tank of water in
the boot, and he had switched on the water spray on the inter cooler..
He also had a big switch on the dash, that switched the idle speed UP... to 3000-4000rpm..??? I can't remember what it was.. maybe higher...??
Lee
PS: I thought those plastic bags that were made to carry water were a neat idea.. but they used 12 Occy straps to hold the bag down??? [elasticstraps with hooks on both ends] Lee
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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bajachris88
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| posted on October 19th, 2013 at 02:41 PM |
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You don't want to gush alot in a hurry, as you want a consistant spray stream across the barrels and heads for even cooling.
You hear the stories of buggy guys driving a hot motor through water crossings and cracking the case due to the sudden change in temperature on 1 side
of the engine (such as bottom side). The metal doesn't contract consistently from the uneven 'coolness' distribution.
What would be cool is a thermo-relay tapped into a cylinder head temp sensor. And i guess if you have it spraying into the fan inlet instead of directly at the cylinder heads, the fan will chew it up and
distribute it evenly perhaps.
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
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New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
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68AutoBug
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| posted on October 19th, 2013 at 09:45 PM |
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Yes,
it would need to be a very fine mist of water...
so, it behaves like air inside the fan shroud...
have You seen those pedestal fans that spray a fine mist of water?? I saw them last summer.. maybe at bunnings??
and the fine mist doesn't wet you either...
they only hold about a litre of water..
You would only need to spray water in the fan shroud when its about 33C or over...
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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1303Steve
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| posted on October 20th, 2013 at 08:36 AM |
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Hi
The secret with any water spray is to have complete vaporisation of the water. So you need high pressure with a fine spray
Any moisture around the spark plugs would be a problem.
Steve
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 Bizarre
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| posted on October 20th, 2013 at 10:09 AM |
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if you want the real mechanics of it google up "adiabatic cooling"
Actually you want "dry" adiabatic cooling
The finer and drier the mist - the better it works
We have used it on air cooled air conditioning systems for ages.
Yes - you can put a hose on your air conditioner but a dry fine mist works so much better
Futue te ipsum!!!
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68AutoBug
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| posted on October 20th, 2013 at 10:55 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 1303Steve
Hi
The secret with any water spray is to have complete vaporisation of the water. So you need high pressure with a fine spray
Any moisture around the spark plugs would be a problem.
Steve
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The polyurethane boots on My spark plugs go right over the top of the spark plug sealing the electrode, so I can hose it and nothing happens...
but We are talking about a virtually dry very fine mist of water
as You say Steve, high pressure, with a very fine nozzle..
Lee
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, if You could fill all 4 tyres up with water, and then use the water for the engine mister , You could drive around the country... but getting
the water out of the tyres while mobile.... while not impossible...??
along with the fact that Your tyres would go right out of balance as the water was used up...
so, maybe 2 or 3 shock absorbers would be needed for the out of balance wheels..
now back to the drawing board...
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on October 20th, 2013 at 11:00 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Bizarre
if you want the real mechanics of it google up "adiabatic cooling"
Actually you want "dry" adiabatic cooling
The finer and drier the mist - the better it works
We have used it on air cooled air conditioning systems for ages.
Yes - you can put a hose on your air conditioner but a dry fine mist works so much better
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Hi
I have been thinking about this for years, to help cool My two air conditioning units outside My house.. as when its 38-44C outside
a fine cooling mist of water onto the fan blades would help keep it cool...
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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modnrod
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| posted on October 23rd, 2013 at 05:30 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Gracey
A guy on here has done this, Modrod from memory.
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Gday Gracie.
Yep, I've done it, and I'm sure many others around the place have as well. It works wonders for a cooling set up that can be marginal at best in
some conditions.
I had a '73 Square in the NT in the mid-80s, 1641/W100/heads, bla, bla, bla! Anyway, just south of Darwin it could happily sit on 70mph in mid-40s
during the wet, but sometimes even temps as low as 38*C during the dry would send head temps too high, and I would have to slow down to 60mph. That
sucks, coz the dry is when you load the little kids in the car and cruise on inland to the waterfalls and waterholes for a cool family day out with
friends.
I used a mister jet from an irrigation company with a very fine droplet size aimed at the fan intake, then had a button on the dash. Press the button
and hold it shut for about 10 secs, water from a washer bottle kit goes into the engine, head temps drop by as much as 30-40*C within a minute or two.
Temps slowly build up again of course when the total heat loading can't get away, but I found a button press every 15mins was enough.
I've also used it where I live now, temps can sit over mid-40s for 1/2 the day, with humidity at less than 10%, all into a headwind and hills, a few
little extra tricks all help in the end a bit at a time.
Sometimes a big caveman stick works better than all sorts of expensive trickery!
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Gracey
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| posted on October 24th, 2013 at 01:27 PM |
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Wow my memory served my correctly for once.
Sounds like a great mod to me (that's been tested) for anyone planning on using their VW in this harsh enviornment.
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Camo
A.k.a.: Kev
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| posted on October 24th, 2013 at 06:55 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Gracey
Sounds like a great mod to me (that's been tested) for anyone planning on using their VW in this harsh enviornment.
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Thanks everyone for the feedback re this mod, but Gracey I was thinking on a turbo application when you reach the higher limits of your boost having a
hobbs pressure switch turn the water on to aid in keeping it cool.
I also still like the idea of water injection into the manifolds, serves a couple of purposes 
Kev
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Bizarre
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| posted on October 24th, 2013 at 07:34 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 68AutoBug
I have been thinking about this for years, to help cool My two air conditioning units outside My house.. as when its 38-44C outside
a fine cooling mist of water onto the fan blades would help keep it cool...
LEE
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Yes - it would definitely help
The finer / higher pressure the mist the better
Futue te ipsum!!!
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Gracey
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| posted on October 24th, 2013 at 08:36 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Camo
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Gracey
Sounds like a great mod to me (that's been tested) for anyone planning on using their VW in this harsh enviornment.
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Thanks everyone for the feedback re this mod, but Gracey I was thinking on a turbo application when you reach the higher limits of your boost having a
hobbs pressure switch turn the water on to aid in keeping it cool.
I also still like the idea of water injection into the manifolds, serves a couple of purposes
Kev
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There was a guy on Rexnet doing intercooler spray kits using a thermocoupler to trigger the unit when the intercooler hits a certain temp. Something
like that would work a treat with a bit of tweaking.
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