| [ Total Views: 1361 | Total Replies: 24 | Thread Id: 104892 ] |
|
|
 beatman11
Commited Dubber
Posts: 64
Threads: 15
Registered: January 27th, 2014
Member Is Offline
Location: Canberra
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Grey
Mood: Happy
|
| posted on January 28th, 2014 at 11:01 PM |
|
|
EMPI serpentine belt seized
Hi All,
I have a EMPI serpentine pulley system fitted to my 1641 and yesterday the idler pulley seized! Chatting to a few people this seems to be a common
problem due to cheap bearings being used. For others that have had this happen to them what did you do to get it fixed? I am going to get the bearing
pressed out tomorrow and see what is available. Any help would be great. I will post my findings after visiting the bearing place. ( I have called
quite a few shops in Australia to see if they sell the idler pulley on its own - no )
Cheers,
Marty
|
|
|
 vw54
Super Administrator
Always Waiting 4 Friday
Posts: 16723
Threads: 378
Registered: August 26th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sunny Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Oval resto ongoing
|
| posted on January 29th, 2014 at 05:11 AM |
|
|
EMPI and cheap go hand in hand
buy a better quality set up next time
|
|
|
 Bizarre
Super Moderator
The artist formerly known as blue74l
Posts: 12755
Threads: 731
Registered: August 25th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Abbotsford, Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on January 29th, 2014 at 05:46 AM |
|
|
The Scat are just as bad.
I certainly don't like any of the serpentine set ups.
Too much trouble.
Futue te ipsum!!!
|
|
|
LUFTMEISTER
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2041
Threads: 119
Registered: July 13th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: BRISVEGAS in a state of flux
|
| posted on January 29th, 2014 at 05:50 AM |
|
|
K.I.S.S :yes
Customer service is not dead in Australia.
Always after HAZET & MATRA & VW factory tools
|
|
|
vw54
Super Administrator
Always Waiting 4 Friday
Posts: 16723
Threads: 378
Registered: August 26th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sunny Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Oval resto ongoing
|
| posted on January 29th, 2014 at 06:36 AM |
|
|
yes have to agree with you Bazz re any of them
just another gimmick
|
|
|
vwo60
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2036
Threads: 71
Registered: February 13th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Pomona Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Blue
Mood: good
|
| posted on January 29th, 2014 at 06:53 AM |
|
|
Some of the EMPI gear is very good quality, it is just repackaged items that they have sourced from another manufacturer, so you cannot lump all of
there gear in the one category , just press it out, it will be a common size, make sure you replace it with a well known brand as a lot of the bearing
shops now carry the cheap bearings as well.
|
|
|
Bizarre
Super Moderator
The artist formerly known as blue74l
Posts: 12755
Threads: 731
Registered: August 25th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Abbotsford, Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on January 29th, 2014 at 08:02 AM |
|
|
It is not only the bearing that is trouble.
My Scat one flogged out the keyway on the top pulley.
Futue te ipsum!!!
|
|
|
matberry
Super Moderator
Go hard or go home
Posts: 8114
Threads: 134
Registered: March 7th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: Cooroy Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: enjoying waving at all my Kombi buddies from my T3
|
| posted on January 29th, 2014 at 08:34 AM |
|
|
Serpintine belt kits are at best for more show than go. Reliability will be an issue eventually.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
 |
|
|
reub
Veteran Volks Folk
VWRX is gone...
Posts: 2054
Threads: 160
Registered: September 2nd, 2002
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
|
| posted on January 29th, 2014 at 03:34 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by matberry
Serpintine belt kits are at best for more show than go. Reliability will be an issue eventually.
|
agree.. piss it of and go back to stock!
Reub
|
|
|
68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
Aircooled Master
Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138% - YIKES --
Posts: 11654
Threads: 449
Registered: August 31st, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: SCONE in UPPER HUNTER VALLEY NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Yellow
Mood: Really Mentally Ill - all of the time -
|
| posted on January 29th, 2014 at 04:28 PM |
|
|
I believe every new car these days uses an idler pulley [or more] but they can be very different....
but they usually last for at least 100,000klms. even 150,000klms or more.
so no junk poor quality bearings in those...
If the bearing can be pressed out then a new japanese or european bearing is needed.. Japanese and European Bearings usually have the brand and where
they were made.. I remember seeing Chinese bearings many years ago, and they were in a plain looking box with no identification on the bearings..
.??
Why are You using a serpentine belt ?
As others have said.. they look great...
I suppose the major weakness being the pulley bearing...
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
|
|
|
vassy66T1
A.k.a.: Marcus Vass
Veteran Volks Folk
Wow ... are U reading this?
Posts: 2120
Threads: 76
Registered: June 4th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisvegas
Theme: UltimaBB Streamlined2
Mood: Happy to own a VW
|
| posted on January 29th, 2014 at 05:02 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by reub
| Quote: | Originally
posted by matberry
Serpintine belt kits are at best for more show than go. Reliability will be an issue eventually.
|
agree.. piss it of and go back to stock!
|
X2
|
|
|
matberry
Super Moderator
Go hard or go home
Posts: 8114
Threads: 134
Registered: March 7th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: Cooroy Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: enjoying waving at all my Kombi buddies from my T3
|
| posted on January 29th, 2014 at 05:32 PM |
|
|
Lee, no other vehicles have a large diameter fan that act like a flywheel mounted solidly on a small diameter (12mm) shaft, add to that a small
woodruf key and a large load being the huge air volume and it's a recipe for a breakage. The worst damage occurs at idle as the have no slip and
engine cylinder pulsing flod the pulleys. Modern engines work as they run high belt tensions and small dia pulleys without the big diameter fan.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
|
|
|
bajachris88
A.k.a.: Chris Leete
23 Windows of Awesome
The international telephone dialing code for Antarctica is 672.
Posts: 6661
Threads: 534
Registered: April 8th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Location: Tanah Merah, SE-QLD
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: A bee bit ma' bottom, now ma' bottom's big!
|
| posted on January 29th, 2014 at 05:33 PM |
|
|
Be sure that serpentine belt allows the correct amount of belt slippage for your fan. if its an OEM fan (not seam welded and balanced again), it can
die catastrophically at high rpm.
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears. 
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
|
|
cb john
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 470
Threads: 6
Registered: June 22nd, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
|
| posted on January 29th, 2014 at 05:57 PM |
|
|
Driven daily for last five years with no problem, except for flogged out keyway, which is an easy fix...everybody's experience seems to be
different...
|
|
|
rickp
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 200
Threads: 31
Registered: April 26th, 2010
Member Is Offline
Location: liverpool
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
|
| posted on January 29th, 2014 at 06:54 PM |
|
|
the bearings are replaceable and are only held in via a circlip on either side, i replaced mine with japanese bearings almost imediatelly, cost of new
bearings a whole $8 for 2 from a local bearing place
|
|
|
matberry
Super Moderator
Go hard or go home
Posts: 8114
Threads: 134
Registered: March 7th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: Cooroy Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: enjoying waving at all my Kombi buddies from my T3
|
| posted on January 29th, 2014 at 08:53 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by cb john
Driven daily for last five years with no problem, except for flogged out keyway, which is an easy fix...everybody's experience seems to be
different...
|
I think they probably like a stock engine better John, because of the smoothest of idles, but I'd still always keep an eye on things. Fan centers and
pulley keyways are what I've seen fail on more than one or two occasions. Your steel hub upgrade certainly improves things.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
|
|
|
HappyDaze
A.k.a.: Greg Mackie
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
Superannuated
Posts: 2887
Threads: 141
Registered: June 13th, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: Southern Highlands NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Happy enough
|
| posted on January 30th, 2014 at 06:16 AM |
|
|
The only time I would change from the 'V' belt set-up would be if it gives trouble. So far it hasn't - touch wood [placing finger on head].
Serpentine belts may give a higher 'impression ratio'.
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
|
|
|
vw54
Super Administrator
Always Waiting 4 Friday
Posts: 16723
Threads: 378
Registered: August 26th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sunny Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Oval resto ongoing
|
| posted on January 30th, 2014 at 06:24 AM |
|
|
| Quote: |
Serpentine belts may give a higher 'impression ratio'.
|
yep they dont impress me 
|
|
|
vlad01
Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber
Posts: 4270
Threads: 109
Registered: June 3rd, 2010
Member Is Offline
Location: Kyneton, VIC
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Side ways
|
| posted on January 31st, 2014 at 09:57 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by 68AutoBug
I believe every new car these days uses an idler pulley [or more] but they can be very different....
but they usually last for at least 100,000klms. even 150,000klms or more.
so no junk poor quality bearings in those...
If the bearing can be pressed out then a new japanese or european bearing is needed.. Japanese and European Bearings usually have the brand and where
they were made.. I remember seeing Chinese bearings many years ago, and they were in a plain looking box with no identification on the bearings..
.??
Why are You using a serpentine belt ?
As others have said.. they look great...
I suppose the major weakness being the pulley bearing...
LEE
|
you could fit an idler pulley of the same type from another car maker as a genuine item as one option.
if the bearing is replaceable, should fit a branded high speed and high load rated bearing which are normally with a bright blue seals on them.
I can't remember what the prefixes are for that rating. I just remember a guy from CBC telling me that about the color.
You are right on the life of them. My idler pulleys on my cars last well over 100k.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
|
|
vwo60
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2036
Threads: 71
Registered: February 13th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Pomona Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Blue
Mood: good
|
| posted on February 1st, 2014 at 07:18 AM |
|
|
The colour of the seal is no indication of the quality of the bearing, the first link shows you the bearing codes and the second link shows you the
seal codes, if you look at the chart it shows the blue seal is a noncontact seal, not exactly what you would want in this application.
http://www.microbluebearings.com/pages/BEARING-SUFFIX-CODES.html
http://www.wib-bearings.com/en/tech/tech_02.htm
|
|
|
vlad01
Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber
Posts: 4270
Threads: 109
Registered: June 3rd, 2010
Member Is Offline
Location: Kyneton, VIC
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Side ways
|
| posted on February 1st, 2014 at 10:12 AM |
|
|
not sure if that is what it means, but they are definitely not non contact seals looking at them here.
They maybe a high heat rated seal or something. All I know is when I ask for a suitable bearing for idler pulley at CBC they give me these ones that
look like that.
They work, they don't fail after 20k like the standard bearings. At the end of the day it they can take a pounding for 100k + I am happy.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
|
|
bajachris88
A.k.a.: Chris Leete
23 Windows of Awesome
The international telephone dialing code for Antarctica is 672.
Posts: 6661
Threads: 534
Registered: April 8th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Location: Tanah Merah, SE-QLD
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: A bee bit ma' bottom, now ma' bottom's big!
|
| posted on February 1st, 2014 at 11:04 AM |
|
|
Too much effort... V-belt sounds easy
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
|
|
Governor
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 414
Threads: 23
Registered: November 22nd, 2008
Member Is Offline
Location: in your mind
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: yes please
|
| posted on February 1st, 2014 at 11:29 AM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by bajachris88
Too much effort... V-belt sounds easy
|
And they work, why spend money on something that wont improve your car?
|
|
|
vwo60
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2036
Threads: 71
Registered: February 13th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Pomona Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Blue
Mood: good
|
| posted on February 1st, 2014 at 08:22 PM |
|
|
As I said before, a good billet aluminium generator pulley and a steel bottom pulley solves all the issues including the ease of belt replacement at
any garage.
| Error |
| Sorry, you must be a registered user in order to download attachments. |
|
|
|
|
beatman11
Commited Dubber
Posts: 64
Threads: 15
Registered: January 27th, 2014
Member Is Offline
Location: Canberra
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Grey
Mood: Happy
|
| posted on March 16th, 2014 at 05:50 PM |
|
|
Hi All,
Thanks for all the feedback - great to read. I have been a bit slack, but have finally found time to fix the idler bearings. To answer a couple of
questions... I didn't fit the serpentine belt system - it was already on the car (don't worry it will be leaving the car very soon, once I decide
what pulley setup to go with)... yes running a OEM fan (also will be leaving the car for a balanced and welded one with the planned engine build)
Anyway I got 2 new bearings from the local shop $19 high speed and high temp rated. New serpentine belt $30 from Supacheap. All back in and the car is
moveable again - no big road trips planned till its changed over!!!
|
|
|
