| [ Total Views: 3484 | Total Replies: 11 | Thread Id: 108823 ] |
|
|
 Phil74Camper
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
Head in the Clouds
Posts: 2703
Threads: 193
Registered: August 28th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on April 15th, 2015 at 06:40 PM |
|
|
Increasing Kombi tow capacity - possible?
I recently got a query from someone on the club website, wanting increase the tow capacity of a 1979 Kombi.
" I have a'79 Kombi - I think my towing specs are 1000/80. what do i have to do to get it to 1500/80 ?Thanks"
The 1974 one I have for my Kombi lists the VW Type 2's towing capacity as just 600 kg un-braked, and 800 kg braked, and a nose weight of 25-50 kg.
This is consistent across all models, and seems to be for both the 1.6 and 1.8-litre engines.
Was the 1979 Kombi increased to 1000 kg (braked, I assume), and 80 kg nose weight, as the guy says, or is he exaggerating?
Even if this is correct, is it possible (or legal) to increase the Kombi's tow capacity to 1500 kg? In NSW, the regulation says that the tow weight
cannot exceed the 'maximum towing capacity of the vehicle' or the 'rated capacity of the towbar', whichever is the lesser. A rule about braked
trailers allowed to be 1.5 times the weight of the tow vehicle (or equal for un-braked) only applies when the manufacturer has NOT listed a tow
capacity. This is not the case for VW Kombis.
http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/roads/safety-rules/road-rules/towing.html
If a way could be found to make it legal, what engineering modifications would you make to allow a 1.5-tonne tow capacity on a 1979 Kombi? Engine,
gearbox, brakes, suspension, tow bar design? What should I advise the guy?
| Error |
| Sorry, you must be a registered user in order to download attachments. |
|
|
|
|
grinderman
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 378
Threads: 50
Registered: April 27th, 2011
Member Is Offline
Location: Grantham
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on April 15th, 2015 at 08:34 PM |
|
|
Don't know about legalities but I had an engineering firm custom make a towbar step setup for my old bay dual cab. They started with a 2250kg rated
tow bar from a 4wd and made some mounts from 10mm plate and welded a second mounting point to the chassis rails. They know and I know that it could
handle a couple of ton but I haven't had it blueplated as I probably won't need to tow more than 800kg. I mainly had it built for off-road
recoveries. As far as towing stresses on a standard bus, I have a friend who towed my dual cab bus on a trailer with his 78 2lt and it was quite
stable for the 200k trip.
|
|
|
AA003
A.k.a.: Phill
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1189
Threads: 39
Registered: October 27th, 2011
Member Is Offline
Location: Southern Highlands
Theme: UltimaBB Streamlined2
|
| posted on April 16th, 2015 at 07:24 AM |
|
|
The regulations were changed in later years since that was written to allow a greater towing capacity. You would probably just need to read the
generic regulations (1.5 times) and the towing capacity stated on the towbar. Engine/gearbox has nothing to do with it.
I read it on samba, so it must be correct.
Sometimes Volkswagen dealers sell spare parts. Amazing isn't it!
|
|
|
modulus
A.k.a.: Peter Hill
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2009
Threads: 76
Registered: July 1st, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Melbourne
Theme: UltimaBB Pro White
Mood: modular
|
| posted on April 16th, 2015 at 01:39 PM |
|
|
In NSW, the limit is established by:
"Towing ratio requirement
The loaded mass of the trailer must not exceed the lesser of:
Rated capacity of the towbar and tow coupling.
Maximum towing capacity of the vehicle.
Maximum carrying capacity of the trailer.
Maximum rated carrying capacity of the tyres.
If the vehicle manufacturer has not specified the maximum towing mass, the maximum towing mass is:
One and a half times the unladen mass of the towing vehicle, provided that the trailer is fitted with brakes which are connected
and in working order, or
The unladen mass of the towing vehicle if the trailer does not require brakes. "
Even with the 2 litre engine, the max. (braked) towing mass specified by VW is 800 kg.
To (nearly) double this to 1500kg would require substantial re-engineering and would be a serious strain on the drive line. Easier to buy a new Ford
F150, rated up to 12,200 lb towing mass, depending on engine/driveline.
That said, I've towed about 2000 kg of racing yacht, trailer (no brakes), tools and spares from Melbourne to Perth, Hobart and Sydney and back behind
an HQ Monaro; it may have *ever so slightly* exceeded the legal limit.
hth
|
|
|
AA003
A.k.a.: Phill
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1189
Threads: 39
Registered: October 27th, 2011
Member Is Offline
Location: Southern Highlands
Theme: UltimaBB Streamlined2
|
| posted on April 16th, 2015 at 07:03 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by modulus
Even with the 2 litre engine, the max. (braked) towing mass specified by VW is 800 kg.
|
Where do you get the 800kg from?
I read it on samba, so it must be correct.
Sometimes Volkswagen dealers sell spare parts. Amazing isn't it!
|
|
|
Phil74Camper
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
Head in the Clouds
Posts: 2703
Threads: 193
Registered: August 28th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on April 16th, 2015 at 07:05 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by AA003
The regulations were changed in later years since that was written to allow a greater towing capacity.
|
Pardon? Check the link to the RMS website again. It is dated 20th February 2015 (go to the very bottom). Are you saying it has been rewritten since
then? Where?
http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/roads/safety-rules/road-rules/towing.html
As per Modulus' post, the Kombi cannot legally tow more than its rated tow weight, which is listed in the owner's manual (800kg braked). The 1.5x
limit only applies when the manufacturer has NOT listed a tow weight.
My comment about engines/gearboxes followed "IF legal". If NOT legal, then that doesn't matter.
|
|
|
HappyDaze
A.k.a.: Greg Mackie
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
Superannuated
Posts: 2887
Threads: 141
Registered: June 13th, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: Southern Highlands NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Happy enough
|
| posted on April 16th, 2015 at 07:35 PM |
|
|
Kombi for towing?...T5 
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
|
|
|
Joel
Scirocco Rare
Now containing 100% E-Wang
Posts: 9368
Threads: 211
Registered: February 14th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: Northern Rivers NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Purple
Mood: Tact Level 0.00
|
| posted on April 16th, 2015 at 08:32 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by modulus
That said, I've towed about 2000 kg of racing yacht, trailer (no brakes), tools and spares from Melbourne to Perth, Hobart and Sydney and back behind
an HQ Monaro; it may have *ever so slightly* exceeded the legal limit.
hth
|
Brad has well and truly got you beat, about 2.5 tonne of car trailer and tractor behind a dual cab Kombi from Melb to Bris many years back.
|
|
|
AA003
A.k.a.: Phill
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1189
Threads: 39
Registered: October 27th, 2011
Member Is Offline
Location: Southern Highlands
Theme: UltimaBB Streamlined2
|
| posted on April 17th, 2015 at 06:55 AM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Phil74CamperAs per Modulus' post, the Kombi cannot legally tow more than its rated tow weight, which is listed in the owner's manual
(800kg braked). The 1.5x limit only applies when the manufacturer has NOT listed a tow weight.
|
Listed in the owner's manual or listed on the RMS list?
The laws changed around the early 80s.
| Quote: | My comment about
engines/gearboxes followed "IF legal". If NOT legal, then that doesn't matter.
|
What?
I read it on samba, so it must be correct.
Sometimes Volkswagen dealers sell spare parts. Amazing isn't it!
|
|
|
Phil74Camper
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
Head in the Clouds
Posts: 2703
Threads: 193
Registered: August 28th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on April 17th, 2015 at 08:02 AM |
|
|
Let's go through it again.
The most current NSW rules are listed on the RMS website, which was last updated 20 February 2015 (not in the early '80s). The link is below. Read
them first, then come back. I'll wait.
http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/roads/safety-rules/road-rules/towing.html
The relevent passage, under the heading 'Towing Ratio Requirement', says:
The loaded mass of the trailer must not exceed the lesser of:
* Rated capacity of the towbar and tow coupling.
* Maximum towing capacity of the vehicle.
* Maximum carrying capacity of the trailer.
* Maximum rated carrying capacity of the tyres.
If the vehicle manufacturer has not specifed the maximum towing mass, the maximum towing mass is:
* One and a half times the unladen mass of the towing vehicle, provided that the trailer is fitted with brakes which are connected and in working
order, or
* The unladen mass of the towing vehicle if the trailer does not require brakes.
So to answer your question 'Listed in the owner's manual or on the RMS list?' - it clearly says "IF THE VEHICLE MANUFACTURER HAS NOT SPECIFIED THE
MAXIMUM TOWING MASS..."
Volkswagen HAS specified the maximum towing mass. It's in the owner's manual and I reporduced the page above. It's 800 kg braked, and 600 kg
braked. The 'One and a half' rule therefore does NOT apply. The wording is pretty clear. Other states may be different.
As for the last point, if it's not legal to tow more than 800 kg with a Kombi, then there's no point in speculating on what engine/gearbox or other
improvements to make.
But this is my question. Could the vehicle be modified to tow 1500 kg safely and regularly, and then certified by an engineer to make it legal, as you
would do with other major redesign/changes over stock specs?
|
|
|
Phil74Camper
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
Head in the Clouds
Posts: 2703
Threads: 193
Registered: August 28th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on April 17th, 2015 at 08:22 AM |
|
|
There are plenty of anecdotes of people towing way-over-spec loads with a Kombi. But the guy with the query seems to want to do it regularly and
legally.
Yes Greg, the T5 Transporter has a 2000 kg tow capacity. The VW Amarok is 3000 kg and the Touareg is 3500 kg. A (mostly) unmodified V10 TDI Touareg
was once used in a demonstration to tow a Boeing 747.
http://www.autoblog.com/2006/11/22/touareg-v10-tdi-tows-a-747/
|
|
|
AA003
A.k.a.: Phill
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1189
Threads: 39
Registered: October 27th, 2011
Member Is Offline
Location: Southern Highlands
Theme: UltimaBB Streamlined2
|
| posted on April 17th, 2015 at 12:24 PM |
|
|
It's only an owner's manual which probably doesn't mean shit in Australia.
The laws have changed. Back in the 70s you could not tow more than the vehicle weight on any car.
Now you would have to look at the list that the RMS has that the manfacturer specified. I doubt if a 1976 Kombi would be listed.
If the police stop you at Alfords Point Rd for an RMS check on the scales, they don't have a collection of owner's manuals to check the
specifications with.
The best idea would be to ask the RMS what the towing capacity is listed at and not people on a forum guessing.
I read it on samba, so it must be correct.
Sometimes Volkswagen dealers sell spare parts. Amazing isn't it!
|
|
|
