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 imo777
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 posted on April 17th, 2015 at 11:02 PM |
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Mix of 8mm and 10mm studs iin case , what torque settings
I have a 1600 dp engine with a mix of 8 and 10 mm studs from a previous owner. I am reconditioning the heads and I need to know if I should use one
torque setting for all studs or the correct settings 18 ftlbs for the 8 mm and 23 ftlb for the 10 mm.
If anyone has experience with this or understands the problem from a technical perspective I would very much appreciate the help. If I use 23 for them
all they may pull out or stretch and if I use 18 for them all they will not be tight? Is this correct?
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fish26
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| posted on April 18th, 2015 at 12:04 AM |
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To me it's a big no no having mixed studs, why don't you replace them all with new 8mm studs
bitten by the bug..........several times
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 matberry
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| posted on April 18th, 2015 at 12:48 AM |
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Nooooooooo
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imo777
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| posted on April 18th, 2015 at 08:32 AM |
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How much trouble is it to remove the old 10 mm studs and insert 8 s. Do I have to remove all the cylinders
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imo777
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| posted on April 18th, 2015 at 08:42 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by matberry
Nooooooooo
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What do you mean ? More info please
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vwo60
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| posted on April 18th, 2015 at 09:33 AM |
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If you use a mix of studs along with there different torque values it will apply different clamping forces to case, just remove the 10mm studs and fit
the 8mm studs using case savers ,you will have to spend the money to have this done but then you will start off with a set of the same sized studs.
don't do a lash up as it will come back to bight you later.
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Bizarre
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| posted on April 18th, 2015 at 10:45 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by imo777
| Quote: | Originally
posted by matberry
Nooooooooo
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What do you mean ? More info please
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It means you should not mix studs.
Well - you can do what you like, but if you want the motor to last you should pull it down and fix it
Trouble is i dont believe you can install savers with the case together.
You will need to split the case
Futue te ipsum!!!
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imo777
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| posted on April 18th, 2015 at 12:23 PM |
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Thanks for the feedback , does anyone know if case savers can be installed without splitting the case
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ragged
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| posted on April 18th, 2015 at 01:18 PM |
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Fitting case savers requires drilling holes and tapping new threads. Some of the stud holes go through
into the the crankcase, so the swarf from the drill and tap will end up inside the motor.
The question I need to ask is what studs are original, and which studs have been replaced.
I assume the 8mm studs have been replaced by the 10mm.
How many have been replaced?
Dave
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imo777
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| posted on April 18th, 2015 at 01:30 PM |
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About half are 8 and half are 10. I don't know the history of the engine I bought the car with it. The 10s screw into the block and the other have
inserts. Is there any way to tell
Imo
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imo777
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| posted on April 18th, 2015 at 04:01 PM |
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So if the case needs to be split to even up all the studs I'm not doing it at the moment, maybe in a year or two. So in the interim what torque
setting should the studs be with a mix of 10s and 8s, I'm thinking 18 to 20
Imo
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dangerous
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| posted on April 18th, 2015 at 07:10 PM |
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Yes, a bit bogus with different studs,
and likely it was an early case originally with M10 studs.
To get you back on the road, tension them at the spec for the individual stud.
i.e. 18lbs for the M8 and 23lbs for the M10.
Please use a lubricant on the threads, and between the nut and washer.
The two different pitches mean the clamp on the head is similar even though the torque is different.
When it gets up to operating temperature though, it will be anyone's guess!
My racing engines have used extra studs above and below the barrel,
and the torque recommendation are smaller torque for the smaller stud,
but in my case, the smaller studs are "additional", so not totally relevant comparison.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by westi
That's mad Alan.
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imo777
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| posted on April 18th, 2015 at 08:38 PM |
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Thanks dangerous
I called a friend who is a mech engineer and he asked me about the pitch on the threads . He also said the tension on the bolt was what mattered but
that was impossible to measure in my situation. So the different pitches make a difference it seems.
Thanks for your input- I have used this engine for 7 yrs with the odd studs and it still runs fine so I'll go with your suggestion unless any one
else has had direct experience in this situation , and I'm pretty sure the original studs were 10 mm
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bajachris88
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| posted on April 18th, 2015 at 10:03 PM |
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Thermal expansion isn't dependant on cross sectional area / diameter of studs, thus the 8 mm / 10 mm shouldn't make a different in that respect.
However, elastic expansion is. > area, < deflection. so given pressure pulling the case studs out... 8 mm will provide more 'give' than 10 mm.
Thats logic though anyways.
If ur putting up with the mixed studs, i'd say drive to divide the 10 mm / 8 mm evenly so the 'give' of the 8 mm is divided evenly.
Its a 1600... not like its some hypo turbo etc.
my 2c.
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears. 
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
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imo777
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| posted on April 19th, 2015 at 06:44 AM |
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Thanks bajachris - there are many variables at play here
Imo777
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psimitar
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| posted on April 19th, 2015 at 09:33 PM |
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TBH I'd try to find a loan engine until you can fix your properly just because no matter what any of us say you're running dissimilar parts and
hence a bigger engine breakdown could occur because of the dissimilar parts.
However, I would first suggest removing an 8mm stud and clamping it in a bench vice. Then use a large socket to act as the head and tighten the nut to
the torque for the 10mm studs. It's not a very high value but testing in a vice will let you know if the stud can handle the slightly larger
torque.
If that test works out OK then do them all to the 10mm torque and then you have less chance of barrel to head blowby due to incorrect clamping
forces.
Going a lower torque may work but a good chance the 10mm studs will work loose giving you blowby.
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imo777
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| posted on April 20th, 2015 at 06:38 AM |
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Thanks for the reply
Is there any reason not to use a high temp loctite to make sure nothing moves?
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HappyDaze
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| posted on April 20th, 2015 at 08:05 AM |
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Dangerous has given you some good advice...take it.
If you want to waste money, and know you will never need to strip the motor again, then Loctite would be nice. 
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
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imo777
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| posted on April 20th, 2015 at 09:40 AM |
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Thanks Greg
Sounds good
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matberry
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| posted on April 20th, 2015 at 12:07 PM |
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Sorry but go with Dangerous' advice with the quality lube and not loctite IMO as a more true torque value will be attained, and remember clean,
clean, clean, parts and threads/nuts
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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imo777
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| posted on April 20th, 2015 at 12:10 PM |
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Sweet thanks Mayberry-there seems to be a consensus from some switched on vw nuts
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